Multi tenant Building and doors

[John D]

I am looking at an old mill that divided up into large spaces. I will have a private entrance but there are doorways leading to other spaces, and not needed by them or me. Old forklift doorways. I know I need to block them off and was thinking of using sliding or roll up type folding cage type doors that you would see at a mall. That way others can see into distillery from other room but can't get in. anyone know if this is doable or should I just put walls or locked solid doors.

Thanks John

[Roger]

I dont know the specifics of your zoning, etc.. But I am always of the opinion that the more visible you make your process ( if it is a well kept space with decent equipment) the more interest you will attract to your offerings.

[dhdunbar]

Federal standards requre that the premises be secure, but they also allow for outside tanks that are surrounded by a chain link fence. The seperation that you propose would seem to be sufficient if the cage doors can be secured for locking in a way that provides the same security as a chain link fence.

[1A Distilling]

John D

My 2 cents, to be safe, just wall it off. Last year at ADI in Denver I had a chance to listen to Garrison Brothers Audit lecture. He remember when the distillery got audited, he had chickens on the distillery property to eat up all of the grain that spilled on the ground outside. The TTB officer asked if he had another business going on raising livestock? So to help, if chicken outside on the premise of a distillery almost got them in trouble, I would strongly urge you to make it completely separate from any other building. As explained to me by the TTB back in 2009, anything larger than a bottle size hole in a wall is too big. Reason they gave me was you could pass a bottle through to another space, hiding it and not paying taxes on it.

Hope this helps, and good luck.

[John D]

John D

My 2 cents, to be safe, just wall it off. Last year at ADI in Denver I had a chance to listen to Garrison Brothers Audit lecture. He remember when the distillery got audited, he had chickens on the distillery property to eat up all of the grain that spilled on the ground outside. The TTB officer asked if he had another business going on raising livestock? So to help, if chicken outside on the premise of a distillery almost got them in trouble, I would strongly urge you to make it completely separate from any other building. As explained to me by the TTB back in 2009, anything larger than a bottle size hole in a wall is too big. Reason they gave me was you could pass a bottle through to another space, hiding it and not paying taxes on it.

Hope this helps, and good luck.

Thanks.

Walling off will be cheaper and adding in security glass so shopper could still see into and then walk to giftshop would be best. Was also thing of all the HEY you type questions coming from that type of gate.

Sure wish I could fine out WHY my permit is pending. Really getting aggravated with TTB. Went from recommend approval back to pending with no explanation.

John

[HedgeBird]

Hey John,

I am in a similar situation in an old tobacco warehouse. I emailed the TTB specifically about this question before I built my separating walls. My goal was also to leave things as open as possible so visitors could see from the tasting room and other areas into the distillery production area.

Here is what I emailed the TTB:

Andrew Martin:

I understand this must be an actual physical barrier that can serve to limit access. Obviously part of the idea behind locating a DSP and a Bar in close proximity is the ability of patrons to view the distilling equipment. Would the TTB allow for a structurally secure fence to be installed as a physical barrier between the spaces instead of a solid wall. For example, something along the lines of these five and a half foot high wrought iron fences

Joan Carpenter, Specialist; Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB):

Generally the TTB likes to see floor to ceiling separation between the retail and bonded premises. Have you considered a plexiglass window? Several distilleries have used these to allow public viewing of the stills, etc.

A 5 to 51/2 foot tall fence would not be considered adequate division.

Andrew Martin:

Thanks for the response and additional information. Would a fence/cage type separation be acceptable if it reached from floor to ceiling, and did not allow space for anyone to go over, under or around?

Joan Carpenter, Specialist; Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB):

That would do it!

Let me know if you want to see pictures of the wall/bars I built, or if you would like me to forward you my correspondence. I think something like I did might look pretty cool in an old mill!

[John D]

Joan Carpenter, Specialist; Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB):

That would do it!

Let me know if you want to see pictures of the wall/bars I built, or if you would like me to forward you my correspondence. I think something like I did might look pretty cool in an old mill!

Thanks

I would like to see the pics.

John

[HedgeBird]

sorry these are rough images, but the light in here right now is not so great..

from distillery into tasting room; from tasting room to distillery; from hallway into tasting room / coffee roaster space..

Just quarter inch mild steel bars and some old wood beams.. When I tried to describe what I wanted/was going to do to friends before I built these they though I was crazy.. "so like jail cell bars? why would you want to do that?!" Now everyone who comes in thinks they are original to the building and that they are the coolest thing ever

[Scottyh]

we had to install a 3 hour fire wall between businesses, 2 sheets of 5/8 X sheet rock on both sides for a total of 4 sheets, and an expensive door.