Does the still heating method have an effect on spirit flavor??

[Bcproduct]

Electric element heating a still VS steam....

Putting operational differences aside, is there any difference in the flavor of the spirit caused by one or the other?

In my mind, the smaller surface area of the heating element... does it burn or over temp or create bad flavors in the wash compared to the larger surface area of steam or bain marie??

[Silk City Distillers]

Yes, but I'm not sure it's a matter of good or bad, it's a matter of different (well, except if you burn, than it's just plain bad). I've tasted plenty of very good products made with direct immersion elements, so it's absolutely possible.

But - it will depend on your product, direct contact elements will have a higher proportion of localized maillard reaction products (some volatile, some good, some bad) as well as some amount of burning. Surface temperature of elements will be significantly higher than the inside jacket temperature of steam or bain marie - this is going to make a difference. So, operational differences are a big factor, bourbon wash distilled on grain vs off grain will be different (you can do both with steam, but only one with elements). With elements, any included solids (grain, botanicals, skins) will likely burn. Also depending on your mash bill, you might find that grains high in glucans tend to burn much more easily with elements. Also, a little bit of meatiness is typically associated with distilling un-racked wash, complexity at low levels, a major flaw at high levels.

This is one area where the hobby forums would have had much more experience, since this is approach that most graduate to after direct firing. Cheap and easy with 15 gallons, much more difficult with 250 gallons.

[Bcproduct]

Thanks James, it makes sense. I would be using a clear wort. I should have mentioned that in the original post.

[CountySeat]

Would there be any difference in using direct heating elements for a second distillation of low wines? I assume that once the low wines are made (perphaps in a larger steam heated still), a smaller directly heated or electric element set up would work. Thoughts?

[Panoscape]

If you can afford it, go steam. Less work in having to clean your wash. If your go internal elements, set a full day aside for pulling the yeast out of your wash. Once yeast is pulled, the flavor from internals is very good.

@countyseat - internals would work very well for spirit runs or redistilling gns for gins and such.

[OldSpye]

Yes, but I'm not sure it's a matter of good or bad, it's a matter of different (well, except if you burn, than it's just plain bad). I've tasted plenty of very good products made with direct immersion elements, so it's absolutely possible.

But - it will depend on your product, direct contact elements will have a higher proportion of localized maillard reaction products (some volatile, some good, some bad) as well as some amount of burning. Surface temperature of elements will be significantly higher than the inside jacket temperature of steam or bain marie - this is going to make a difference. So, operational differences are a big factor, bourbon wash distilled on grain vs off grain will be different (you can do both with steam, but only one with elements). With elements, any included solids (grain, botanicals, skins) will likely burn. Also depending on your mash bill, you might find that grains high in glucans tend to burn much more easily with elements. Also, a little bit of meatiness is typically associated with distilling un-racked wash, complexity at low levels, a major flaw at high levels.

This is one area where the hobby forums would have had much more experience, since this is approach that most graduate to after direct firing. Cheap and easy with 15 gallons, much more difficult with 250 gallons.

+1.

Some of those guys (not all, or even most, but definitely some) have crazy knowledge. It's pretty easy to figure out who knows what's going on, if you read the boards for a while.

[CountySeat]

@Panoscape. Thanks. We are tenatively planning to use direct electric for the second distillation but was curious if anyone had bad results or better results with a second distillation using steam.

[jlevac]

If you can afford it, go steam. Less work in having to clean your wash. If your go internal elements, set a full day aside for pulling the yeast out of your wash. Once yeast is pulled, the flavor from internals is very good.

@countyseat - internals would work very well for spirit runs or redistilling gns for gins and such.

So you are suggesting that a 2 micron or less filter should be used?

[Panoscape]

@jlevac - we use a plate filter and first use a course pad that has a rating of 6 microns and then run it again with a fine pad that has a rating of 1 micron. This makes for a very clean wash for internal elements. We tried using a fine pad first, but it burned through a ton of them very quickly. We then switched to course pads first and this helped a lot in cost savings for the pads. The 6 micron filters don't pull out enough yeast. When distilled using 6 micron cleaned wash you will still get the yeast burn and stillage stink. So, you need to hit it with the 1 micron fine pads to get most all of the yeast out.

[jlevac]

@panoscape, interesting. I only have a filter housing like this one: http://www.gwkent.com/proline-filter-housing.html

I have an option to purchase a 10x10 plate filter and debating if i need it or not. We take possession of our space september 1st and i'd like to make sure i have that portion figured out. 100gal with 5 5500w stripping still and a 50 gal spirit still with 3 5500w elements.

[Salishseaorganicliqueurs]

We'll be using a .45 micron filter from Millipore. http://www.millipore.com/catalogue/item/kvhla10tt1

[Panoscape]

We use something like that for polishing our vodka, it works well. But for cleaning fermented wash, I'd do what the brewers do and use a plate filter. If you get a nice one you can load most of the plates with course and the last few with fine pads and get it all done in one pass.

BTW, five 5500w'ers are ton for 100 gallons. We run two 5500's for our 75 gal. charged main and 25 gal. thumper. Heat up is about an hour and a half. During the run we turn one off and just run an adjustable one. If I where you, I'd keep all those elements and go with a 300+ gal. stripper.

But in the end, you're going to get sick and tired of the cost of labor and filter media. If you can swing it, go steam or exterior heating. Nothin' like the ability to go straight from the fermenter into the still. Time is money. With internal elements you save $ upfront but spend it on the back end cleaning your wash so you can run it.

@ salish, those look very nice. Just a word of advice, our 1 micron pads clogged after 3-4 minutes of use, which provided about 10 gallons of clean wash. With the 6 micron filters we get about 15 minutes of filter time and capture about 25 gallons before back pressure maxes out and we then have to replace the pads. We use a 20cmx20cm plate filter. After the course cleaning, we get the same cleaning time for the fine pads, 15 minutes and 25 gallons. We are saving up for a 40cmx40cm plate filter so we can increase the surface area and run time and make this less of a time monster.

@ jlevac - I hear you there! Starting up without debt is awesome. It's what we did and hats off to you and best wishes.

[jlevac]

Five elements were for heat up and then once to temp, I would be running two. I hear you about labor! But there is something g to be said about starting up without debt.