Experience with used bourbon barrels?

[kckadi]

I was recently given a couple of freshly dumped 53 gallon 'big distiller" kentucky bourbon barrels and was thinking of putting my next still run from 100% corn mash into them. Its my first time doing this and was curious if anyone has aged in used bourbon barrels and what was their experience? How was the end product?

Also I'm trying to figure out the whisky class and type. I think the above would fall under the TTB WHISKY type of "WHISKY DISTILLED FROM BOURBON MASH¹ as the TTB definition is

"WHISKY DISTILLED FROM BOURBON MASH"

Whisky produced in the U.S. at

not exceeding 80% alcohol by

volume (160 proof) from a

fermented mash of not less than

51 percent corn and stored in

used oak containers

Or if I distill at a higher proof it could be type "LIGHT WHISKY":

"LIGHT WHISKY"

Whisky produced in the U.S. at

more than 80% alcohol by volume

(160 proof) [but less than 95%

alcohol by volume (190 proof)]

and stored in used or uncharred

new oak containers

In the light whisky definition it is not defined if a used barrel must be uncharred or charred. Since it is not defined then either one must be okay?

Any feedback or thoughts?

[leftturndistilling]

The result would be Corn Whiskey ..... corn whiskey is aged in used barrels per CFR27....

[Jake Holshue]

My experience has been don't trust the fact they sold you "freshly dumped" barrels. Still attempt some sort of swelling. If you feel there won't be enough oak flavor there get some oak spirals or honey combs in there to help it out. How long were you planning on aging this product?

My thoughts on the TTB definitions are keep it lower proof, and go for "Whiskey Distilled from Bourbon Mash", you'll leave more flavor there and I think you'll be happier with your end product.

Jake

[Jake Holshue]

You're right LeftTurn, used containers are permitted per CRF 27 for Corn Whiskey.

[kckadi]

Thanks for the responses.

I've been pulling my CFR 27 definitions from TTB doc http://www.ttb.gov/spirits/bam/chapter4.pdf

I'm a little confused by the corn whisky type definition as it pertains to charring

Whisky produced at not

exceeding 80% alcohol by volume

(160 proof) from a fermented

mash of not less than 80 percent

corn and if stored in oak

containers stored at not more

than 62.5% alcohol by volume

(125 proof) in used or uncharred

new oak containers and not

subjected in any manner to

treatment with charred wood

or directly from the CFR

(ii) “Corn whisky” is whisky produced at not exceeding 160° proof from a fermented mash of not less than 80 percent corn grain, and if stored in oak containers stored at not more than 125° proof in used or uncharred new oak containers and not subjected in any manner to treatment with charred wood; and also includes mixtures of such whisky.

Doesn't the last sentence preclude the use of any charring in barrel or spirals/chips? It specifically forbids any manner of charred wood treatment. Would a used charred barrel still be considered a "treatment with charred wood" or does the TTB not recognize a used charred barrel as a charred treatment?

I'm not sure how long I'll be keeping it in the barrels. I was planning on just waiting and see what happens.

[Jake Holshue]

Most spirals/ chips are toasted, not charred. I would clarify with TTB on "treatment with charred wood".

Jake

[Natrat]

Yes, do clarify.

My guess is that the whole "treatment with charred wood" bit is a reference to the Lincoln County Process and Tennessee whisky. I'm pretty sure that putting your corn whisky in regular old used charred american oak barrels isn't a problem. How long it stays in there is important and there may have to be some funny text on your label, but I'm sure there's nothing wrong with using the barrels.

[Michaelangelo]

Or not using barrels at all. "and if stored in oak containers..." Putting it in the barrel implies aging, but corn whiskey does not require it.

[PeteB]

I am glad I am distilling in Australia.

If we want to use the term "Whisky" , the grain spirit must be stored in an oak container (new or re-used or charred or otherwise) for at least 2 years.

Other than that we are almost left alone as long as we pay a horrific amount of tax.

[Toneleria del Sur Coopers]

I was recently given a couple of freshly dumped 53 gallon 'big distiller" kentucky bourbon barrels and was thinking of putting my next still run from 100% corn mash into them. Its my first time doing this and was curious if anyone has aged in used bourbon barrels and what was their experience? How was the end product?

Also I'm trying to figure out the whisky class and type. I think the above would fall under the TTB WHISKY type of "WHISKY DISTILLED FROM BOURBON MASH¹ as the TTB definition is

"WHISKY DISTILLED FROM BOURBON MASH"

Whisky produced in the U.S. at

not exceeding 80% alcohol by

volume (160 proof) from a

fermented mash of not less than

51 percent corn and stored in

used oak containers

Or if I distill at a higher proof it could be type "LIGHT WHISKY":

"LIGHT WHISKY"

Whisky produced in the U.S. at

more than 80% alcohol by volume

(160 proof) [but less than 95%

alcohol by volume (190 proof)]

and stored in used or uncharred

new oak containers

In the light whisky definition it is not defined if a used barrel must be uncharred or charred. Since it is not defined then either one must be okay?

Any feedback or thoughts?

You should try Sherry Casks while keeping your Bourbon Casks production. The palette of flavors Oloroso sherry or PX sherry casks impart in spirits and brews is almost boundless. Just contact me if interested

[Toneleria del Sur Coopers]

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[LibertyCall]

You can just label it as "Whiskey". There's nothing in the general regs that say anything about aging, barrel type, etc. If you want to call it bourbon, rye, etc, then you have to follow the subset rules. You will have to get formula approval for it though. That adds an extra 2 months to the process, but you can start aging it in the mean time.

Spirits distilled from a fermented

mash of grain at less than 95%

alcohol by volume (190 proof) having

the taste, aroma and characteristics

generally attributed to whisky and

bottled at not less than 40% alcohol

by volume (80 proof)