will
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Posts posted by will
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Porter,
You're right, an un-fermented cereal mash is not regulated at all - kids can buy it, so can you, and any DSP is allowed to inoculate and ferment that stuff in his own equipment.
However, as PM noted in the original post, the Regulations (CFRs) don't allow beer to be transferred to a DSP for distilling material (whether the state allows it or not). On occasions where the TTB allows a variance to that regulation, the process is that the beer is transferred without payment of tax. Tax is paid once it leaves the DSP as spirit.
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Contact your TTB specialist. The regulations do not permit it, but you may be able to get a variance.
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Subtract what from what? Then do what with the number?
That's the evaporation method, and it is:
(1) usable only in a very small range of obscuration,
(2) usable only in a very small range of proof, and
(3) requires a very good (expensive) laboratory balance.
If you have the equipment for a burn-off, it's usable for any measurement. it even works when the obscuration is so small that you don't need to consider it.
Where is this stuff? 27cfr30.32
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John,
I thought so - proves that those little electric things are "indicators" not "instruments."
I have one on the still head - easy to read, and .5 degrees is not important when you're just watching the bread bake.
It's really hard to beat a precision piece of glass with a pure element inside. I bought a fist-full of them, and was very interested to see that the scales were all different - none of them line with each other, indicating that they produce each one separately. They all read the same...to within .05 F or so.
Will
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John,
Do you compare the mercury thermometer to the electronic thermometer? If so, what kind of correlation do you get? Does it change as a function of room air temperature? (that's the biggest problem with electronic units)
Will
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Dave,
Nope. That's not even close. (+- 0.5 degrees guarantees the wrong answer).
This is what you need: Certified 30f-124f Mercury
Once you have that (and it's expensive), you can get several of these (and they're not expensive) to use in the lab and do your own "calibration" by using the Certified thermometer to compare...on a regular basis. Same thing, not Certified
The same folks have great hydrometers too.
First rule: No shortcuts.
Will
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Sherman,
Did you correct your data from %Wt to %Vol?
The data below are from Wikipedia's ethanol data page, which takes data from CRC, but it's truncated (so I've ordered a copy of CRC).
Some time ago, I worked through the Clausius-Clapeyron equations, and it took so long that when I was done, I couldn't remember why I had done it. It was because the Wikipedia data is truncated. Now I can't find any of it.
So, these values are from Wikipedia corrected from %wt to %vol using derived data from TTB Table 6.
Will
BP °F Volume % ethanol
Liquid Vapor
172.6 97.0 97.0
172.8 93.5 94.5
173.1 89.0 92.5
173.5 87.0 91.5
173.8 85.0 91.0
174.2 83.5 90.0
174.6 82.0 89.0
174.9 80.0 89.0
175.3 78.5 88.5
175.6 76.0 88.5
176.0 74.0 87.5
176.4 71.0 87.5
176.7 69.5 87.0
177.1 66.5 87.0
177.4 63.5 86.0
177.8 60.5 86.0
178.2 57.5 85.0
178.5 54.5 85.0
178.9 52.5 85.0
179.2 50.5 84.5
179.6 48.0 84.5
180.5 42.5 83.5
181.4 39.5 83.5
182.3 36.0 82.5
183.2 32.5 82.5
184.1 30.0 81.0
185.0 28.0 80.0
185.9 25.5 79.5
186.8 24.0 78.5
187.7 22.0 77.5
188.6 20.5 76.5
189.5 19.5 76.0
190.4 18.0 75.0
191.3 16.0 74.0
192.2 14.5 72.0
193.1 13.5 70.5
194.0 12.0 68.5
194.9 12.0 66.5
195.8 11.0 64.5
196.7 9.5 62.5
197.6 9.5 60.5
198.5 8.5 58.5
199.4 7.0 56.5
200.3 7.0 53.5
201.2 6.0 51.5
202.1 6.0 49.0
203.0 5.0 46.0
203.9 5.0 42.5
204.8 3.5 39.5
205.7 3.5 36.0
206.6 2.5 32.5
207.5 2.5 28.0
208.4 1.0 23.0
209.3 1.0 18.0
210.2 0.5 12.0
211.1 0.0 6.0
212.0 0.0 0.0
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When they're making cordials....or anything containing a significant amount of added sugar.
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you may be right, but if he were asking that, what would be the determining factor for when it's done?
I think he's looking for something else.
"if the wash is 7% ABV, then the resulting vapor (or distillate) will be 60% ABV for example"
that's close...7% ABV liquid is about 52% ABV vapor at BP.
when the still is running, absent any reflux, at STP, assuming a simple ethanol/water mix, there is a fixed relationship between the ABV in the kettle and the ABV of the vapor coming off of it during boiling. additionally, the temperature of either the kettle or the vapor, is a clear indicator of either.
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Tom,
If I understand what you're driving at, you want to:
[a] measure the temperature of the wash in the kettle, and based on that, know the ABV of the stuff in the kettle, or
measure the temperature of the vapor (above the wash) in the kettle (or still head) and based on that, know the ABV of the vapor, or
[c] measure the temperature of the wash in the kettle, and based on that, know the ABV of the vapor above the wash, or
[d] measure the temperature of the vapor (above the wash) in the kettle (or still head) and based on that, know the ABV of the stuff in the kettle...
Is that correct?
(Is it really as easy as that?)
You must be looking for the chart and graph on the last page of Chapter 2 of Bill Owens's book - the one we use in the ADI workshops.
If that's what you're looking for, I'll drive down to Bill's house a bit later and grab a copy and scan that page for you.
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Lee,
You've been holding-out on me. This is much nicer looking than my camp stove contraption.
Will
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I just "hate" guys like this.
He is so modest...he didn't even mention that he's just back from LV where Nightclub & Bar Magazine crowned him Bartender of the Year 2010...after they put him on the cover of the magazine.
He's knowledgeable, often brilliant, entirely earnest in his endeavors...he's even good looking for crissakes!
He is simply a force of nature.
Welcome, sir!
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For ADI members outside of California, we have an interesting "initiative process" that allows voters to write new statutes, amend our constitution, overturn the legislature's actions, and recall representatives by paying a $200 fee, qualifying, and placing their referendum on the ballot. This requires a long process, the gathering of nearly half a million signatures, and finally winning at the election booth.
This initiative by the Whitneys is a bit less scary than had it been raised by a member of the legislature. Here, presuming they get the required signatures, all of California's voters will have an opportunity to read their rambling and inaccurate initiative. Happily, most California voters like beer and wine and are very proud to be America's largest producer of the latter.
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"Containers" is a generic term that applies to both bottles and barrels, as well as totes, etc.
You can reference the Spirit BAM directory and assemble a copy of the Beverage Alcohol Manual there. It's fairly good, and covers the CFRs pretty closely.
Words like "...in charred new oak containers" in Chapter 4 means barrels, but you could build a handy little box out of oak, and that would be okay...though you might be thought of as a bit odd.
Can you store your product in semi-permeable plastic containers and add some charred oak chips? Sure you can, but you will not be able to call it "whisky" or "whiskey."
Can you store your product in tiny barrels for four months and call it whiskey? Sure you can...but if the Standard of Identity calls for "new oak" then you should remember that the barrel is considered "new" only upon its first use, so you might as well get your money's worth.
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Just a thought...you might want to mention what type of product you'll be making.
You'll also get better applicants if you provide a bit more information about your company, funding, market, etc.
Will
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Brilliant!
Wasn't sure from the photos, but clear from the drawing. From your bench testing, do you have any idea how deep the puddle of refluxed spirit is in the bowl? what i mean is: the photo indicates the return is scissor-cut slots - do they offer enough resistance that the spirit puddles deeply enough to make a "mini-kettle" that re-boils?
I guess this means that it would be relatively easy to make a new cylinder column and stuff a stack of these guys in there. Any plans for that?
Let us know how the next mods go.
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Not sure I get it...can you post a sketch of a side-view of the parts placed into the column?
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You may a wrinkle with the Feds. You can't have a distillery at a residence. One of our members had to build a fence to demise the two property areas. Don't know if there were any title change requirements...formal split into two parcels...but they got it done.
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it's used as a blasting media like walnut hulls.
google for "dry ice blasting."
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less grain, more water. No additive necessary if you're making a barley wash.
If its corn mash add 10% barley at 140 degree as you heat it
and 105 more at 140 as you cool it.
bill owens
105 more is a typo for 10% more
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Do an iodine test. If you're not getting complete saccharification, you need to add enzyme...alpha and beta amylase. These are available with trade names like Dextrozyme, etc. First, though, make sure you're mashing correctly. If your temps are off, you may be destroying any natural enzyme (that you're paying for) in the malt you're buying.
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Absolutely Brilliant!
Spectacular execution.
Kudos,
Will
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(and you know I rarely say nice things)
Definition of "Oak Container" per TTB ?
in General Discussion
Posted
The TTB has two missions: (1) protect the revenue, (2) protect the consumer.
The Standards of Identity (27cfr5.22) merely provide the minimums that must be met should the producer intend to identify his product with a known class and type.
Here is Whiskey:
That's not too complicated, is it? Plenty of latitude.
I do like the idea of cycling product through the same barrel, but I would suggest exchanging a small portion such as 10% on each run. Very clever, and good results, I'll bet.