jocko

Love to see!  A man of my own heart.  I don't automate anything (although I could, obviously).  My goal is to fully understand -- over many fermentations & distillations -- how small things impact the distillation, what gets put into the barrel/tank, and final product. I track much more than this (and I suspect you do as well)... this is just the distillation piece. I've been doing this for many years, and seem to understand each spirit better over time. 

@richard1, I track liquid temp in the pot, vapor temp in the pot, top of onion temp, temp at bottom of dephleg, temp at top of dephleg, temp at top of condenser, temp of distillate, temp of water going into condenser, temp of water leaving dephleg, temp of water tank, etc.  I have done this for a while on our smaller still and correleate all of that data with cut points based on the recipe, spirit type, whether its a stripping run, etc.  It's been pretty interesting and provided some insights. Plus, I'm a recovering engineer and it's basically free information that is constantly being created nearly free to store.  It also is really healpful as my little program I wrote will automatically set an alarm a few degrees under the boiling point based on the ABV (per the various ethanol phase diagram data) to ensure that the closed-loop water system was is turned on in advance of the first distillate.  I don't automate anything but it makes it easy to train someone to know what to do, as well as log that it happened (training problem). I log everything so if an alarm went off, someone made a potentially dangerous mistake. 

Pour, the still geometry dictates that from where a port is available to just below the condensate returns from the column and gin basket, that the probe be that long to guarantee liquid contact.  I was thinking of having our welder create a lower port, but that's more expensive and intrusive.  If I could find a longer probe, it would be fast & easy. 

Hello!  We are about to commission our new still, and I've dusted off my tech skills and written some monitoring software to allow me to set alerts for key temps at various key points in the process.

One place I've always monitored closely was the still temp -- the liquid itself.   The new still (1500L) has an analog thermometer with a 40" probe.  I want an RTD probe of similar length, ideally with a 1/2" NPT thread at the top.

I've been looking but not seen anything beyond 24".  Does anyone know of any quality RTD (3 wire) probes that are extra long.  40" or even longer ideal. 

Also, curious where people m

How do you feed the spirit into the filter?  Gravity? Pump?   

Before fermentatation you mean?  This can make a massive difference, as the yeast will have a desired range. 

After fermentation, PH will not impact ethanol levels. 

Yeah not a fan of Salesforce.  Every deployment of it I ever used was pretty archaic and tough to use.  Probably only worse platform I've used is SAP.  I might sit through a demo though.  We have a brewery and have done all of those TTB filings by hand (spreadsheets, etc.), but the distilling side is much more onerous.  Whiskey Systems (the alternative) raised ther prices so much that it may not be something we can justify as a complete startup on the distillery side.

I got an email from these folks.  They have breweries and distillery customers and look to cover a broad set of business ops, including TTB filings.

Before I responded to them, curious if anyone has taken a look or is using them?

http://www.ohanafy.com/

At our brewery we use GLS.   Believe they do spirits as well. 

Hello.  If this is not allowed, I understand.

There's a very active member on these pages.  A gentleman named Alexander Soroka (goes by Alex Sor on these pages) who has been a very helpful resource to many here.

He's in Kieve, Ukraine and his life has been turned upside down since Russia invaded.  His business has dropped to practically $0.

He's been too proud to ask for help, until now.  So, I trust that this means that things are truly dire for him.

I've sent him many questions over the last two years and he's been very helpful.  

I encourage anyone so inclined to also help. His paypal address is alex.sor.2022@gmail.com

Best regards.

Alex, you have been a very active and helpful participant on these pages, long before Russia invaded.  I am sending you some money tonight. 

My experience as well.  We have a sanitary welder we use all the time.  The joints are so perfect before any welding is done.  He never uses fill either (or very little).  I was amazed how he welded the flue on our brewhouse kettle while sitting on the pot 12' up in the air, and two guys were on the roof holding it in place (myself included).  He's also an inspector and a professor at a local community college teaching welding.  Absolute magician. 

Since this was an old thread I never commented on it, but since it's received new life I thought I'd chime in.

As a hack welder myself, I make all sorts of things for the tasting room, and recently got another MIG welder that will be just for stainless.  I don't think it matters that much for distilling in general as long as its structurally sound. 

Unlike brewing, where contamination is a massive concern, I think that as long as it's a strong weld, it doesn't matter what it looks like.  With something like beer or wine where any risk of contamination could cause problems months later, distilled spirits are far less sensitive to comntamination, oxidation, etc.

What am I missing?

In our brewery, everything is the finest sanitary weld. Everything is mirror finished, no room for a spec of bacteria to hide.  We use co2 or nitrogen to flush bottles, to purge tanks, etc., nothing thats been sanitized has been exposed to air. Every connection, every hose ending, every clamp, is sprayed with isopropyl before use and brewers wear fresh nitril gloves that they also sanitize before touching anything. Zero tolerance for any contamination at any point in production or serving.

Now.... on the distillery side.  Not so much.  Bacterial infection is not nearly a concern.  Batches of are distilled long before an infection could make a difference.  Bottles will not have to be purged before filling, etc. Alcohol kills everything.  Unless you're doing low proof RTDs or liqueurs, what does it matter?

Yes. Search the old threads.  There's tons of info there.  I usually do it via Google because the search function here seems prretty weak.  I just go to Google and search "adiforums" as the first word then the topic I am interested in. 

Welcome.  I'm at a similar timeline.  Buildout underway. Still, boiler, fermenters, chiller, etc all waiting to be installed as soon as sloped floor is epoxied. 

One thing I was wondering as I scale my own gin up is what the heat up time on your old still vs. your new still as well as the takeoff rate of each as a percentage of total ethanol volume per minute. 

Wondering how much time the botanicals are spent in the warming temps then at boil, impacting the extraction.  This is a real concern for me as the test batches are very small (4 liters) and the still heats up in 15 minutes. From turning it on to first drop.  It's done in 1.5 hours. 

With my 1500L production still, it will take much longer than 15 minutes and much longer to complete.  So -- quite a bit more time of having the botanicals stew  in hot ethanol.  That must change the flavor substantially.  We'll see.  Ramping to a larger pilot still soon.  10 then 20 then 40 gallons soon but I'm bracing myself for substantial changes. 

This is such a niche market, one wonders how they can afford to simply rely on the largest distillers.  We've looked at it, but its so hard to justify $325/month while still very small. It would seem they would be trying to get every brewery, distillery, rectifier, winery, etc. but are instead culling their smaller customers and (I guess) focusing on the larger ones that can afford a bigger monthly payment.   

I suppose there's some strategy behind it, but it doesn't make sense to me. 

Would you rather have 5,000 customers each paying say $200/month or 1,000 customers each paying $400+/month?  I suppose the support costs per customer are not insiginificant, but they could keep monthly costs low, and charge for support beyond X calls per year.  Also, have and support an active user group community where self-help becomes a way to offload support costs. 

@SlickFloss very clever. 

Looking for a recommendation for a temperature controller on a tank.  Have a glycol system and want to just have eacah tank with their own controller.  Turning on the celenoid if temperature rises above the set temp.

A temperature controller paired with a selenoid.  Anyone have a recommended controller/cellenoid pairing? 

At our brewery we have a complete cellar control system.  The distillery will just have a few fermenters and I don't want to have a big expensive cellar controller. 

Thanks.  No plan for steam injection. 

Hello! I was intending on doing stainless for steam supply header and return.  My welder suggested Schedule 40, as it's low-pressure steam and the Schedule 40 costs much less. The various valves, traps, etc. are not stainless so I'm thinking this might be a good direction.  3" main is going to be big money in stainless, as well as stainless flanges, etc.

Any thoughts/recommendations?

Aldrich.  It has 5:1 turndown ratio -- supposed to have among the best turndown rates in the industry (per the boiler reseller).  

This is all low-pressure steam.  My still comes with three ports into the steam jacket.  One for team input, which is a 1.5" threaded NPT.  The other, a 1.25" NPT condensate output on the bottom of the jacket.  The third is a 1.5" tri-clamp for a PRV valve, which I will also put a pressure gauge on.

I was at another distillery recently, and they have a very similar still with the same number of ports in the same locations.  But... they set it up such that their steam input goes to both ports on top -- there's no PRV on the steam jacket.

I called it out to the owner/distiller and asked why they did that.  He was unsure, as he had hired people to do all the steam piping.  The boiler company did not do the steam piping. 

This certainly feels like a potential safety issue.  I certainly would not have done that. But, in thinking about it it seems like a lot would have to go wrong for something bad to happen.  The jacket is rated for low pressure steam.  The boiler is outputting low pressure steam.  Seems like a blockage would just kill efficiency, not burst the steam jacket.  

I told him to talk to his boiler company to make sure that they are aware of the situation and see if they feel its a safety risk.  

Thoughts?

@SlickFloss, globe valve recommendations (manufacturer)?  We've ordered everything else, but there seem like so many options on the globe valces I've become indecisive.  3/4" and 1.5" are the sizes I'm getting.

I have been working for some time on perfecting gin recipes.  In an effort to not fall in love with my own products and be objective, I have been doing a lot of gin tastings with people that are really into gin. I am struggling with getting quality, useful feeedback.  

Three people are lifelong gin fanatics.  They love gin.  Others have wonderful pallets and can fully express what they are tasting... but are not longtime gin drinkers and don't hhave depth of understanding of the style.  I'm in the middle. 

But, the problem seems to be that nobody drinks gin straight. It's always in a cocktail.  G&T the usual, but it's always adulterated and the tonic can make a massive difference, as well as how the lime is presented.  One of my tasters insists on sugar-free tonic.  Which is terrible, as I think it really skews the experience. 

Curious what people do to get solid feedback.  I have some gins that I think are unbalanced.  But, put it in a G&T and wow.  It explodes. Drink it straight and it's not.that.good. as a standalone product. 

Thoughts?

Ok thanks.  We have a brewery as well, so was thinking of getting another cart pump like we use there for CIP, etc., then a spirits pump.  Compressor is in the same building but there's another tenant between where it is and where the pump will be used.  I could run an air line under the roof.  I'd prefer electric for spirits if the prices are not crazy.  1500L still, so concerned about how long a smaller pump might take.