Andrew

I have a Merlin. Our water pressure is decent, and I'd estimate we get 250 gpd from the Merlin. 700 gpd is a surprising volume to me. It's an excellent way to get started for low volume production, but I'd recommend a bladder tank that it fills rather than using it on-demand. Its throughput will otherwise drive you nuts. -A

As per CFry and will, you'll probably find that unfiltered water clouds your spirits with precipitate and that you need to use RO water. Mineral heavy water is great for your ferment but may be a headache for cutting. Do a quick and dirty test. Add your glacial water to a sample of spirit that approximates what you'll make (store bought 190 proof grain spirit in a pinch) and add some RO or distilled to a second sample.

The tasting portion of our walkthru lasts as long or longer than the facility tour. People ask more questions and really engage when at our tasting bar. From this, some general advice is to plan on a lot more time per visitor when you add tastings, and make your tasting area comfortable for both you and a reasonable number of guests. -A

Yes, we use the Enol inline filter. It works well though it does slow down the fill rate a bit, especially the 0.2 micron.

We use the Enol. I've found with our botanical infused spirits, like spiced rum, that 0.2 micron is the way to go for a crystal clear spirit. 0.5 micron is still a bit hazy, though it's what we use because there's a difference in flavor each step down in filter size. I'm not completely happy with the Enol because it likes to squirt in a little extra spirit during bottle removal, though it does better than the XPress we have. -Andrew

Thank you very much for the response. I'm glad to have the new neighbors, and it is beautiful country; I hope to visit them when I can find a spare moment. Interesting point about being a gateway for St. Louis, too. That would be a boon to our location as well.

Very interesting, thanks for the info, Chuck. Do you know if they'll be buying barrels to start their product pipeline sooner? Is the Bourbon Trail going to be officially extended their way? It's a pretty long haul from Bardstown. Being new and in KY ourselves a couple people thought the press for this place was about us. I wouldn't mind being their level of "small". -A

Our first choice of location was a 3 story historic commercial building with the top floor serving as an apartment. Separate entrances etc. The folks I talked to at the TTB said it very probably wouldn't fly, contingent on application inspection (the application, of course, requires a signed lease). So we walked away. I've since seen postings saying that a separate entrance makes a difference, but in our case the entire building was dubbed a dwelling house. -A

I don't think Jack and George will ever do sampling because of they are in dry townships. The TN law allows sampling if the local area is wet. All the handful of distilling-permitted counties in TN being dry, you need to be in a wet township in one of the dry counties to do sampling. Which means sampling is allowed in a few square miles in all of the state. Laws are baffling. -A

At some point your box will meet the hands of a part-time low wage warehouse employee. If you've seen those school competitions where eggs in containers are dropped from a helicopter, plan on that. Here's the Fedex wine packing literature for more serious guidance: http://fedex.com/us/wine/Wine_Shipping_Pac...ng_Brochure.pdf -A

UCC is a cruel and unusual monopoly, but their entry fee (which is tiered) does come with 100 UPCs at the base level. We have six products, with 375, 750 and 50 ml fills possible, which is 18 bar codes off the bat, so for us it's already more sensible to register as a member. If we wanted to barcode packaging or special boxes or whatnot, having those 100 codes begins to look OK. I do hate that there's no competition though. -A

Jeff: http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=3...entry1786 From a couple TTB conversations, I was never given a specific distance. The guidance I got was to make it easy for an agent to clearly say they're two distinct and separate areas of a property. -A

This is a very significant and touchy subject for our left coast brethren. As someone splitting time between two states each without craft distillery law, I'm taking away a lot from the macro positions of both sides of the argument. That said, may I ask that the talking points of a more personal nature head offline? We can leave it to the wine makers to publicly bicker in non-productive outlets.

We're using a Vendome pot still and an antique pot still (formerly steam-fired) with the oil heater. The Vendome pot's jacket was customed for oil by Vendome but is pretty close to their steam jacket. I'd imagine that, like the antique pot we're using, any steam coils or steam jacket that forces some manner of circulation would work with oil too.

We use electricity indirectly. We use a heater (3 phase, 440 volt) that cycles food-grade thermal oil through the jacket on our pot. It's a more expensive solution than steam or a water bath, but it's codes-friendly, letting us exist downtown. As well, I'm a big fan of being able to control my pot's temperature down to one degree, and being able to pick a temperature from room temp to 350 degrees is dandy. -A

I was looking at stainless-wrapped Teflon hosing last month (for our thermal oil system, not alcohol) and, while it's neat stuff, I didn't like the fact that it cracks rather than kinks. Bend it too far and there's a popping sound, at which point the hose is useless. Which is unfortunate given the stuff's cost. -A

There are two cons that come to mind regarding getting filled boxes from your bottle supplier. First, good bottle people such as Pascal (who I've had good experiences with, as an aside) are uncommon and their bottles tend to come from overseas to a facility that might not be close to you. In contrast, cardbox box makers are pretty common and usually close. I'd rather not pay shipping on the cardboard from the remote facility when I can get boxes close to home (in our case, we can pick our cardboard up from the plant ourselves). Second, as previously mentioned, assembled boxes can take damage more easily during transport than flats can. On the flip side, the convenience of a one-stop shop and coordinating just one order and shipment is mighty nice. 2 cents, Andrew

In Kentucky, $2500 for the distillery license, $500 for gift store package sales, $100 for a sampling license (per annum). Our local fees are about the same. -A

To the best of my understanding if you site on a farm or other property that has a dwelling house, there has to be a definite separation between your operation and the distillery. I was told, when I called the TTB, that a physical separation like a fence row or line of trees plus a distance "of note" would suffice. In contrast, we first looked at a historic building that been subdivided. One unit was rented as an apartment. That made the entire building a dwelling house and off-limits. Give the TTB a call and explain your layout. They're good about helping with questions like this. -A

I attended the 2008 TTB conference and was very impressed. It did not seem like a first year conference, being well organized and run. Attendence from within the TTB was substantial. Much of the content was most useful to startups and newer licensees, but there were sessions I believe experienced attendees found valuable. Examples include detailed walkthrough of the COLA system and the various mistakes that can slow a label app down, and forum sessions on mandatory paperwork where people could work through points of confusion and anomolies that they'd come across. I think both new and experienced attendees liked being able to meet agents face-to-face who they'd worked with remotely. -A

I'll take a crack at fixing it. I'll shoot you a PM. -A

I do know that investor's presence would create an issue in a couple states I'm familiar with. Check with your state ABC. I do not believe that sort of connection is an issue at the federal level, though I'm not 100% on that. The TTB's concern, from my experience, is in confirming transparency of invested cash and the good legal standing of all investors.

Congratulations, Bryan! I'd love to make a field trip to that part of the country when time allows. As a quick aside, I dealt with Rob Sherman of Vendome for one of our stills and had a great time working with him. Within reason (he does spend his days managing the floor of their facility), he was very responsive to both phone and email. The older guys may not be too responsive but Rob's definitely into what we're doing.

You may get some traction from Table 307.1(1) of the 2006 International Building Code. 360 gallons of ethanol per "control area" (ie, room) before you earn any hazardous designation, provided you have sprinklers and proper containers. Not enough to be a barrel house but perhaps enough to kick-start a conversation with your local guys. If they use the national fire code guidelines (NFPA Fire Code?) I think they're more liberal than the IBC, though it's been a year since I looked.

Chuck: I'm guessing you're assuming that for redistillation you put 190+ proof GNS in the still? I'm not aware of a process where that's the case. The redistillations I'm aware of require cutting the base spirit, often significantly. Significant reconcentration of alcohol occurs, which I believe is necessary for the extraction of all the range of flavors desired. Water plays its own role in bringing flavor molecules across, and the changing mix of water and alcohol as distillation proceeds should carry over different compounds. More importantly, starting with too high a proof in the still strikes me as a significant bump in the hazard of the enterprise. -A