Nick Carbone

Dave Richard Blau at Gray Robinson in Tampa 813 273 5000 He does only alchohol clients. Has been my attorney for six years. Tell him I sent you. Nick Carbone Fat Dog Spirits

Hey Troy I had that problem when I first started filling way back when. In my case I figured out I washing my bottles out with city water which for whatever reason (probably disolved solids in the water) left the residue in the neck. Can't tell you the chemistry behind it but I use my RO water to to do it and it cleared up. The other alternative that I have seen it use air to clean out the debris in bottles. Don't know how that works though. Sterilization is not the issue since you are filling it with high proof spirit. Hope you are doing well man. Nick Fat Dog Spirits Tampa

I feel I need to clarify I am not shutting down my distillery I am not liquidating the equipment I am looking for someone to buy or come in as a partner to devote the time, energy and resources to this project that I can longer do. If I do not find that opportunity Then my plan is to hire someone to do what I used to do. It is my time and financial commitment that I am looking to replace. Nick Carbone 813 503 5995

Hello everyone. It is with mixed emotion that I announce this. I have owned and operated Fat Dog Spirits distillery since 2004. I have been offered an incredible opportunity to re-enter my former profession as an investment banker that I feel I cannot pass up. As such I will no longer be able to spend the requisite time it takes to actively run my distillery and market my brands. I am therefore looking to sell or bring in a partner to this opportunity. I am essentially the sole owner so terms are flexible. Any interested parties will need to be able to bring cash to the transaction. The distillery is located in Tampa. But could easily be moved. Actually I am considering moving it to Orlando. I am resident now in Orlando (hence the logistical problem) This is an operating distillery with a gold medal (San Francisco 2006) winning vodka, an award winning Absinthe (best of category NY Spirits Competition 2009), and an American style Gin (not yet entered into competition). Equipment is custom pot still and two custom finishing stills, one in opeartion and one not yet attached to a pot. Blending and storage tanks and filler. Serious inquiries only please. Nick Carbone 813 503 5995 <<<<< this is my cell.

Doug Could you forward the list of GNS suppliers you have. Also if you found any that ship in smaller quantities. I have my current supply but have to order in 350 gal totes. Call me at 813 503 5995 or email fatdogspirits@earthlink.net Thanks Nick Carbone

If you are still lookong for a distillery please contact me at 813 503 5995

I received the exact same letter today. Nick

Hi there Nick at Fat Dog Spirits in Tampa FL. I use R/O water to dilute down to bottle proof. Some of our water is good but the stuff from the municipal supply can have other minerals etc that can effect taste. I think since you tried bottled distilled water you have taken out the effect of the local water being the problem. It would help to know what you are distilling but if it's citrus you get a considerable haze when diluting. Some of it will dissipate as it dissolves. This is that old argument even the whisky makers wrestle with. Do you chill filter or not. You will remove some flavor. Welcome to the very small group of Florida distillers. With you that makes 4 of us I believe. Nick

what do "toddy" bottles look like? Can you send me a picture or sample off line? Nick Carbone Fat Dog Spirits

I too have disagreed with some of your comments but very much welcome your discussion points! In the couple of threads I have participated with regards to your observations I feel you have raised some very good arguments. I am not sure there is going to be any way to regulate what is going on out there except as moral obligation to adhere to some standard. In that sense this business, craft or otherwise, will always have its opportunists trying to dupe the consumer but based on the discussions you have started they will find no quarter here. Keep on keeping us honest. Nick

This will spark the same discussion as the other post on one of Chuck's insightful writings. For one I welcome this. I think the challenge to the industry and caveat emptor is essential. I would submit a few points of argument on the blog. One is the matter of economics. A "craft" distiller may be forced to employ economic "shortcuts" in the production of his product. He may utilize exisiting equipment at another licensed facility to produce a part of his ingredient. I think this is Bill Owens point. An example of which is fermenting at a brewery. They have already invested in equipment to complete this process and as long as that is done under the control and direction of the craft distiller meaning his recipe and his yeast selection etc then the location of the fermenting tank is a minor detail in my opinion. Moving down the production line many young micros are distilling unaged spirts by necessity to bring in a little cash flow during which time they can develop an aged product. Nothing wrong with that. I think it is up to each distiller as to what he should call "artisan" or "craft" and Chuck's comments should be taken to heart here. I think you will find in most cases that the products produced use local and/or natural ingredients that larger distillers don't which make those products unique and exceptional. Last I would take issue with the term "tradition" in Chuck's blog. This would also include the comment about stills. Most of the distilling technology is at least 100 years old including of course the potstill(which is even older) and the European hybrid stills he is referring to. Are you telling me that there is no room for improvement or innovation in the area of still design and use? When single malts and American whiskys were being developed these stills were not available so the age old pot still was used and is still used with great results. That doesn't mean that another still cannot affect the same, different or even better results. If no one had the balls to try something different then we would all still be drinking mead. As in any industry it is those willing to take risks that make the innovations and evolution occurs as a result. The use of wood chips instead of barrels breaks with tradition and may make perfect sense if better or different results are achieved. I am not making an argument for their use only as to trying something different. If you want to make a traditional whiskey then go buy a mothballed distillery in Scotland. But if some one wants to experiment with different wood finishes, toasts etc. and they make something that tastes unique I certainly would call that crafting a spirit. It is not a measure of fideltiy per se to tradition and I hope that Chuck's observations of our emerging segment can embrace that very important element of its character. Nick

I am having trouble sourcing these little bottles. I use Waterloo but they tell me I have to buy a pallet which is 9000 little bottles or somthing like that. Anyway it was huge and I couldn't imagine using them all unless I sponsored an airline. Would anyone like to share their source for these little bottles in small quatities maybe a few of us could make an order together. I use the Bellisima bottle from Saver which they don't make in 50ml but as long as it looks close. Nick

You would proably want to clean it if you are not going to put another batch right on top of it. I"harvest" the yeast already used and put another batch on top and just add nutrients. It will depends on what your fermenting and the resiliency of the yeast you are using but i would say that you can count on recycling the yeast. At least that has been my experience. For cleaning I would recommend the same procedures for sanitizing equipment for home brew. Any sanitizer that kills the bacteria growth and keeps it off. depending on how long between uses you may have to clean it again before use as you won't be able to completely keep the nasties out. Again your not worried as much as the beer or wine producers because nothing can live through the distillation process but you don't want to start growing off flavors either so it's better to just clean it. Nick

Hey Mudpuppy I think you'll find it varies. It depends what you are doing. The thing to keep in mind is that brewers are very cocerned about contamination and so will spend money to make sure that the tanks a very asceptic. You end up drinking what comes out of the tank. We do too but if you are distilling you will be killing any nasties in the boil. Not to say that you should throw caution to wind. But you will hear stories about carribean rum production where they let wild yeast settle on the wash in open air vats and reuse the dunder in the next fermentation. Sometimes its about flavor. That said I find that an economical fermentation vessal is a food grade 55 gal drum. They can be hermetically sealed and you can put a bubbler in a plunger in the small hole. they do not impart any flavor and can be easily cleaned. It works great for my honey fermentations but they are not temp sensitive which is another consideration with beer. Do not Do not Do not use these same vessels to store spirit or mix spirit. They are supposed to be resistent to alcohol but they degrade and effect the taste. You will have to redistill anything you put in them. Stainless steel is always good but expensive. If you get a tank make sure it has a man hole at the bottom so you can clean it. Nick

Thanks guys. I will check it out Nick

I am not talking about filtering out flavor. I am talking about parsing out some of the fatty acids that end up in the distillate after a fruit maceration and the sediment from an herb maceration (ie absinthe). As I understand it it from talking to a single malt whiskey distiller from Scotland that they have the same problem after diluting the spirit with water. Some of the fatty acids come out of solution and create a haze. He told me he does not like to chill filter because it removes desirable flavors. He said they filter at a positive temperature (above zero Celsius) Weird way to say it but he's Scottish. I think he said they use plate filters but I know his operation is much larger than mine or others on here so I thought I'd see what was being used. I know that you have to get a pump that can handle alcohol and not degrade or casue a fire hazard. I will not use anything on spirit 80 proof or above that isn't stainless steel or Pharm grade silicon. You will get stuff leaching into the product so all the wetted parts in a pump and the tranfer hoses must be resistent. I think the answer is some small version of a plate filter system.

Just curious what people are using to filter spirit (80 to 120 proof). Is anyone using the plate filters used in wine production? I don't mean carbone filtering I am talking about removing particulate in the spirit from macerated material. Need to know what equipment works best for small batch processing filters and pumps. Thanks Nick

Add Fat Dog Spirits, Tampa FL to the list of supporters

Hence my clarification in my trying to quote Lance Winters (lamely) in describing the art in artisan. We as a group are trying to define the term ourselves as has been posted here in these forums. Your point is taken. If I buy dixie crystals and disolve them in water and add baker's yeast you'll get a wash you can distill but does it have character? Does it explore new ground? Does it say something different? I think that is part of the test Chuck. And there are folks out there who are trying to do this and maybe don't quite understand where they're going and why. The market will take care of them. A craft distiller might decide to make a distilled spirit from I don't know let's say a Yuca plant. It might not have a market today and may never have a mass market but it is something that has never been done before and that is art. You may not like Andy Warhols Campbells soup can but you got to admit it's different. I think we agree more than disagree on this. Are people abusing the genre. Probably. I am just trying to say that innovation comes from taking risks. As a master distiller at a big whiskey house with a well deserved title you are the master of the craft but how much leeway do you get to experiment and take risks? At one time somebody in that organization did take the risks and that's might point. Thanks for prompting the discussion. Respectfully, Nick

Ramblings from the cheap seats down here in Florida. I haven't chimed in on these issues yet mostly because I've had my head in my pot still. Yes my POT STILL. That has a COLUMN on it. In which I make a very irreverent vodka distilled from Florida honey. Honey? Yes honey. It has been 4 years since I decided to learn the craft. From scratch. And I wanted to make something that spoke of the of the land from which it came. Where I was born and raised. In Florida. I think I make a very nice vodka. So did the judges in San Fran in 2006 when I came out. A joke? I can tell you I laugh every time I see that list of gold medal winners in my category for that year from France, Russia, Estonia (fill in some other European country here) and the handful of micros from virginia, oregon, california and florida on the same list. I may be tooting my own horn a bit, but it is to make a point. And my point is this. We micros are a very upstart (perhaps irreverent) bunch. I can understand why the establishment (sorry chuck I don't know you but, you're not a micro, so you're the establishment) may take umbrage to some of our practices and products. We don't follow the rules. If we followed the rules we would all still be stock jockeys or accountants or whatever we did before we lost our minds and opened a distillery. I recently heard Lance Winters (that's Lance Winters at St. George) speak at Tales of the Cocktail and I think he said something very profound. I don't know if he meant it as a defining point, and I am periphrasing here because they served 4 cocktails during the session, but it was: If you want to experience an artisan distilled product seek out thosed distilleries who are using the local ingredients because they really are an expression of that region. The artisan distiller (we) makes products for his own reasons and they may not necessarily have a market to begin with, but he creates the product for its own sake. Or something along those lines. It sounded better when he said it. Hmm sounds kinda like art for art's sake huh? So why don't we have your respect? Maybe its just we had the audacity not to ask for it. Or that we don't want it or need it. I am not trying to be antagonistic and as I read that last sentence it sure sounds that way. But there is no other way to say it. I don't want to pretend to speak for others here but garnering respect of large established distillers was not high on my list when I decided to do this. That's what I was rebelling against. In fact I pretty much counted on hearing some of the things you expressed Chuck. You are right about one thing though. My payback comes when someone tastes my products, enjoys them and feels compelled to share that joy with me. That's respect. That's why we do it. It is ultimately the consumer who will weigh in here and rightly so. So if you are a consumer as you say step out of the lines a bit and try Stranahans or St. Georges whiskey or if you're feeling really off your rocker maybe a vodka made by a micro. And if you truly enjoy it please share it with the maker. As others have said, I have tremendous respect for those who came before me for what they endeavored to create, for their courage and for what they have achieved. But I also see those same qualities in my contemporaries... BTW I go by the title my folks gave me Nick

Fat Dog Spirits in Tampa. I make vodka from Florida Wildflower honey (no cooking needed) but ferment and distill. Also do Valencia Orange and Key Lime using the real fruit under the brand Touch. Also am in the market with Artemisia Absinthe. Been at it about 4 years .....

I will reaffirm what has already been said about there not being a standard. This spirit has not been distilled legally in the US, France or Switzerland for over 95 years so it is safe to say that we are all new at this. That being said I agree with Guy in that it was my own experience in developing my absinthe. I researched what I could find on old recipes and experimented with them and added my own botanicals to bring a flavor which I felt was a flavorful expression. I do have the holy trinity (Grande wormwood, Anise (not star) and fennel) in historical proportions and I suspect others do to. Beyond that it's up to the distiller. The less than 10ppm benchmark is well within those historical recipes I can tell because I was afraid to send my sample to TTB after following one to the letter and it tested below 10ppm and there was a lot of wormwood in there. I know that Lucid went through great lengths (from what I have read) to adhere to the tradition of Absinthe down to the Alambic pot stills. This category is about to get nasty I think as people try to assert to the consumer that each is the genuine article and as always a lot of misinformation will get perpetrated. In my opinion it comes down to taste preference so if you want more wormwood taste others that come to market and drink the one you like. In my opinion the only ones I've seen on the market that I would not consider true absinthe are the Absinthe Liquers which have sugar in them.

Hi Chaucer My sense is you will have to go through much of the same process. You will still need the basic permit and I think the DSP (Distilled Spirits Permit) permit. You may not be distilling but if I remember even if you are buying and rectifying DS you come under the same Codes. The only difference would be you won't be registering any stills. You will still be bonded and as such would come under that permit. Essentially if you have distilled spirits on your premise you will have to get a DSP. I haven't looked at the Code in a while but that's my sense. Nick