Silk City Distillers

I would imagine that trying to lump spirits in with non-alcohol bottling will cause all sorts of equipment and facilities related concerns. Not only equipment compatibility with high proof spirits, but the additional burden of a whole production floor potentially needing to be Class I Div I/II.

I'm pretty sure the last time I was up at that big NY State/Hudson Valley craft distiller, they were storing barrels in containers on their property as well.

The spirit of the law is clearly to curtail nefarious behaviors associated with cheating taxes, cheating the customer, or cheating both. It's was likely written broadly to eliminate the possibility of loopholes (paging Dunbar!). I can hardly believe that the Federal Government would outright prohibit the recycling of bottles, which is what is being proposed. That said, I wouldn't touch it, for fear that the letter of the law would be enforced (and not the spirit).

How much is really being saved after you take into account the work necessary for receiving, removing labels (probably a disaster), cleaning/sanitizing, relabel and refill, probably new corrugated too. If this account is looking to reduce the cost by recycling bottles, why not package their product in less expensive packaging? After taking into account the labor, you could probably reduce the package costs by nearly the same amount.

We're up in Clifton if you ever want to chat.

I feel maybe I wasn't clear, I am a fan of the bugs.

And from wikipedia (blech, I know):

Budweiser is brewed using barley malt, rice, water, hops and yeast. It is lagered with beechwood chips in the aging vessel which, according to Anheuser-Busch, creates a smoother taste.^{[clarification needed]} While beechwood chips are used in the maturation tank, there is little to no flavor contribution from the wood, mainly because they are boiled in sodium bicarbonate [baking soda] for seven hours for the very purpose of removing any flavor from the wood. The maturation tanks that Anheuser-Busch uses are horizontal and, as such, flocculation of the yeast occurs much more quickly. Anheuser-Busch refers to this process as a secondary fermentation, with the idea being that the chips give the yeast more surface area to rest on. This is also combined with a krausening procedure that re-introduces wort into the chip tank, therefore reactivating the fermentation process. By placing the beechwood chips at the bottom of the tank, the yeast remains in suspension longer, giving it more time to reabsorb and process green beer flavors, such as acetaldehyde and diacetyl, that Anheuser-Busch believes are off-flavors which detract from overall drinkability.

Interesting on the beechwood, but Budweiser themselves state that the beechwood chips are added to the lagering process to increase surface area and prevent the lager yeast from going dormant/settling out early. There are a number of other sources that state the wood chips are sterile.

http://www.gotham-imbiber.com/abib.pdf

Budweiser’s highly-publicised “beechwood aging process” is a marketing manipulation of part of the brewing process, where sterile beechwood chips, boiled in sodium bicarbonate for several hours to remove any flavoring possibility, are added to the maturation tanks to aid yeast action and clarity.

I had such high hopes for this thread that the two camps could meet in the middle, make peace. Instead this thread needs to be killed, beaten with a stick ... preferably wood ... no, a steel pipe.

Years ago, people didn't know what yeast was. It lived on wooden mash paddles, they had no idea that it was there. If you had the magic paddle and could make beer, you were probably a shaman, or at least the most popular guy in the village. Someone finally figured it out, there was much rejoicing. Now we can choose from all sorts of interesting yeast. The other bacteria are just as important, and you can exercise the same level of control.

I just don't see why you would leave it up to chance. I'm not saying you can't or won't get a great result, you absolutely can ... but not always.

Check with Watlow or Exheat on the heating elements, I believe they both have operations in the UK and can supply ATEX/Classified compliant immersion heaters and potentially control panels as well.

Stilldragon has a European subsidiary, you'll probably find what you need from a parrot perspective there. Nice thing is all their kit is triclamp, so adapting to suit your need is usually as easy as clamps and fittings. They can do larger condensers too, triclamp as well, but they will be stainless tube-in-shell. We had them make us a larger one and it was very reasonable in comparison. I also had them make me a pedestal mount parrot adapter, take a look here:

https://www.stilldragon.org/uploads/FileUpload/50/df2a91faece2f0b9b4bd72a85c1442.jpg

Common RO wastewater ratio is closer to 4:1 than it is to 2:1 (4 gallons wasted for every 1 gallon produced). Poor units setup incorrectly can be even higher yet.

There are strategies to reduce this, but there are typically downsides to all of them, no free lunch.

I would agree that a thumper acts as an inefficient plate, but sometimes that inefficiency is exactly what you are looking for. What to do when 1 plate is too much, but zero plates are too little?

You see similar strategies to exploit inefficient mass transfer in a number of places, whiskey helmet, cooling lintel, true dephlegmation.

I don't think it's as simple as this however, take a look back at the old style rum setups with high and low wines thumpers, you have something very different happening. I strongly suspect there are additional esterification reactions taking place, but that's my 2 cents. I'm not sure I follow your note on Cowdrey, if not mass transfer/distillation, what is the mechanism? Look at a thumper and plate comparatively, and you see only a few differences, mainly that "reflux" is preloaded in a thumper, versus actively generated real time in a plated system.

All that said, I don't think that's a thumper on the bottom right of the Vendome print. That looks like a standard stripping setup that feeds some holding tanks that run into a batch still.

You want to cry? Check out how much money these guys have raised through kickstarter...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/263766519/whiskey-elements-customize-your-whiskey-in-24-hour?ref=discovery

Here is an old table I put together when I was just starting to play around...

I have a much more expansive table now, but I'm not going to share that one.

If anyone wants a good primer on the topic, read Nicholas Wilson's PhD thesis. Honestly, it's very good and well worth your time.

http://www.ros.hw.ac.uk/handle/10399/2260

Simson, Petterson, and Priest do a nice job providing an overview of just how richly complex Lactobacillus really are, looking at 64 different strains in 23 distilleries. To make it all the more interesting, despite the huge array of strains known, they just so happen to find a completely new one, which to me says there are many more to be found.

http://mic.microbiologyresearch.org/content/journal/micro/10.1099/00221287-147-4-1007?crawler=true&mimetype=application/pdf

Lacto is way more complex than the way it's generally discussed. This applies to many of the other bacteria as well. Simply reducing it to the genus level is a gross oversimplification of what is happening.

I agree with ASD.

I have a thing for bacteria. I'm successfully propagating a number of non-yeast bacteria - a few selected strains of lactobacillus and as well as a specific propionibacterium and clostridium strain. Took a while to work out the specific starter formulas and propagation methods, and find sources for the right strains, but it's working well. The procedure is similar to a stepped yeast starter, albeit somewhat more complex.

Unlike wood, with this approach you can control for specific bacterial strains, and introduce them at specific points in the process. Imagine if by chance you got the perfect blend of bacteria, got a fantastic series of batches, and then some rookie dumps sanitizer in the wood tank. The magic is done, it's all gone. Likewise, with a brand new tank, what guarantees you inoculation with the right bacteria and not the wrong bacteria? Nothing.

Why leave it up to chance? It's about time bacteria got the limelight.

Scanned through the rupture discs, the most interesting are the SaniTRX versions, since they are built into what looks like a triclamp gasket, meaning it can be placed in a standard triclamp joint for the pipe size, no fancy housings.

I buy a lot of surplus, but unless the thing is boxed and sealed, I'd be wary. There are guys asking $100+ for rupture disks that look like they've been unwrapped, in the bottom of a junk drawer for 3 years.

So leave your stainless tanks and hoses dirty, you'll have no problem creating a unique bacterial biome... Perhaps you'll be lucky enough to pick up a nice terroir, maybe even a marketing story around it?

Think of all the money saved, until Swamp Thing comes crawling out of your fermenter and terrior turns into terror.

For those who have spent some time with non-yeast bacteria, you'll remember that the source of Clostridium in old rums was fecal matter.

The problem is these guys are just grabbing a water heater/hydronic boiler pressure relief valve, the 60psi variants are low pressure relief for water heaters (which usually take 150psi). They are also completely the wrong PRV.

If you don't know the difference, you grab the PRV and think you are safe.

I also like the Apollo 5psi valve, but I've been trying to keep an eye on something sanitary that doesn't cost an absolute fortune. I'd like to be able to routinely disassemble the PRV and be able to inspect it and clean as necessary. I get worried that occasional foam-up in the boiler will cause caking/residue that the CIP can't reach to clean.

Why not just pick up something like this?

You know, it's not so far fetched to think that the Ferrari is probably the more rational investment...

Honestly, try the Sebflo-TL first, it works like a charm. If you are trying to use these to lauter, good luck, you'll need it.

If you want to hop over the river into Jersey, I have 100ml for you.

Beta Glucanase you can easily get small quantities from Sherman - http://www.enzymash.com/

Pentosanase - Are you talking about something like a Xylanase enzyme that would be used in commercial baking?

I wouldn't cut the top off that thing, it's a beautiful looking tank. You'd likely lose the agitator mount, which is also a big plus, and will make fab'ing or mounting an agitator very easy.

Oil? We fire with oil. In a pinch we ran on diesel.

We're doing the same thing.

However - Direct steam injection is our approach, but we've got filtered steam so it makes that easy. Can't comment on the elements, only be sure you do the math on heating before you invest the money. You don't want to be in a position where it takes you 8 hours to get to boiling. 200 gallons, from 75F to 212F, in one hour will take 80kw. That's 300 amps on a 240v service - probably beyond your service capacity. Moving down to 30kw (125 amps) - now you are going to need about 3 hours to heat. One good alternative is to use an on-demand hot water heater like a Rinnai or Noritz. They have a high btu gas-fired commercial model that will get near 170-180F output. It will probably save you hours of time every mash.

On the motor - don't look for a milk tank replacement motor, they are too small, too slow, and too expensive. Instead retrofit a washdown motor and gear reduction for the agitator, use the existing paddle. It's going to take some fabrication and welding. If you can't fab, there is a good chance you can find a nice Lightnin' mixer on the surplus market. Look for something 1/2-3/4 hp.

Another thing to keep in mind is the insulation on these milk tanks is very good, with the tops on, don't for one second think you are cooling from cook temperatures to malt temps, to pitch temps, in any reasonable amount of time - you will need some sort of active cooling. Our Mueller holds temps very well, something like 1-2F drop per hour.