Silk City Distillers

Oatmeal in the carter head basket doesn't sound like a fun time

What does your floor plan look like?

If you can afford a Gamajet CIP system, you probably aren't fermenting in plastic IBCs.

The mobile nature of a shipping container is exactly why the TTB would never allow it. Just like the prohibition of vessels and boats. If the container became an integral part of a building, that might change the dynamic a bit.

Out here in the northeast, zoning is determined on a municipality by municipality basis, so there can be dramatic differences just moving one town over. No idea what it's like in Montana, so keep that in mind when reading my response. We were required to obtain a use variance to operate in a Business Commercial zone, otherwise distilleries were classified as permitted uses only in the most restrictive of the defined heavy industrial zones. This classification was likely based on rules put in place pre-prohibition. This process required an attorney, architect, and planner. While the town was very receptive to the idea, we still needed to go through the proper channels. The team, which also included an additional expert, made the case to the board. I'm glad we brought along an expert to give testimony as well, since we did have "interested parties" who asked some significant questions that the board would have deemed us unqualified to address.

I'd suggest working with a local attorney who is familiar with local land use and frequently presents use variance cases to the zoning and planning boards. Not only will these folks be familiar with the process, but in many cases (at least out here), they are familiar with the particulars of the board and know particular pain points. In our case, he specifically recommended we pay particular attention to items like parking and odor, since he knew that these were particularly sensitive issues around the area of our location. Of course, he was spot on, and it was the main issue that the "interested parties" brought up. We were able to nail it. The architect had done parking calculations, reviewed local parking, etc etc. Clearly made the case that we were in excess of required parking. Also, the expert (another local distillery owner) was able to address the issues of odor by providing specific examples of their own active operation. Our attorney went back through the township records to be able to make the point that they had never had an odor complaint against them in their years of operation.

Anyhow, I digress.

One of the key points of the case that the attorney made was that only a portion of the overall facility would be utilized for manufacture, with the remaining used for storage, office, and mercantile. The latter 3 uses being perfectly suited for B-C, and represented a majority of the square footage. While the manufacturing aspect wasn't pure incidental use, the local zoning provisions did allow for up to 10% manufacturing space within a B-C. What it boiled down to was that the existing zoning code was not suitable to characterize a unique mixed use business such as a craft distillery, and that the B-C zone is actually more suitable than heavy. The other flip-side of his argument was that mercantile/retail was also prohibited in the H2/H3 heavy zones, so simply moving into another zone doesn't resolve the mixed use issue.

Hope this helps, but I'd still recommend the attorney, and of course the devil is in the details. Let me know if you want a copy of our use variance and zoning board meeting minutes. Although I am from Jersey, your zoning guy might take one look at it and laugh you out of town.

I would be inclined to believe that most "fail" (run out of cash) before they even open their doors, which means if numbers exist, they are probably understated. If it's like any other industry, if you can make it to startup, there's a 55% chance you'll be around by the end of 3 years. If it's like any other startup I've worked with before, the #1 issue is poor management.

Strike a balance and focus on the importance of local sourcing and supporting local farmers and businesses. I tend to look for the organic label as well, but if you told me that your only real alternative was to truck it in from 3 states over, it's tough to not give that fact serious consideration.

I think that's an oversimplification of the process. Seldom is anything so simple, especially where preference and subjectivity come into play.

I would argue that if getting distillate at any proof out of the business end is the point, a pot still is going to be more efficient than a column still. It takes a considerable amount of energy to vaporize, condense, and revaporize the distillate associated with reflux necessary for a fractionating column (plated or packed) to work effectively.

So why bother if it's less energy efficient? Because the payback for the additional energy involved in running a column is the ability to produce tighter separation of fractions, so the separation efficiency (if there is such a thing) increases. Once you start to increase the number of plates, the ability to separate increases even more so.

Now, if getting distillate out of the business end at a high proof is the goal, things change, since making N passes through a pot still are going to consume more time and energy than fewer passes (or just one) through a column.

Pulling "out all of the flavor" is much harder than you think, there are plenty of plated and packed columns in operation that are producing products chock full of flavor.

By the way, I hate the word "flavor" since most implicitly associate it with good flavors. Bad flavors are flavors just the same. A still doesn't know the difference between a good flavor and a bad flavor.

Can't imagine the service life of rubber steam hose would be anywhere near steel pipe. I'd give the manufacturer a ring and inquire as to whether it's intended for permanent installation, I'd be surprised if it were. If you were going to go that route, I'd budget in for replacement every few years. I don't know your premise layout, but I'd also consider the potential for accidental damage.

When you say efficiency - what do you mean? Are you concerned with the energy efficiency of the overall system? As in, I'd like to be green? Or are you talking about being able to support a faster product take off rate? As in I don't want to find myself having to run at a slower take off rate because my product condenser can't keep up? These are different.

Short answer, the higher coolant flow rate the greater the "efficiency" (TO AN EXTENT), but there are dozens of other variables too, and some of these are tradeoffs.

The "Just slow enough" regime is ideal when you are not recirculating, as it utilizes the least coolant possible. This is especially good if you can find a use for the hot water created. However, in the real world, being able to run faster means turning up the coolant flow rate, which wastes more water, or generates an overabundance cooler water. Tradeoff.

However, if you are recirculating, then it's a different story. You aren't wasting coolant, so you don't need to worry about that tradeoff. You now have the luxury to run increased flow rates, and if you increase flow rate, you increase the heat transfer rate (TO AN EXTENT). This assumes of course, that you have the reservoir capacity for this to make sense.

Don't take this to mean that you can blast cold coolant through an undersized condenser to infinitely increase take off rate, won't happen. Yes, you'll gain some headroom, but you'll hit a wall (where you'll witness a head scratching operating condition where very cold distillate is produced alongside hot vapor chuffing out).

Keep in mind though, with most simple recirculating coolant setups, the flow rate in the coolant loop is determined by the process controller opening and closing a valve. So, the flow rate that's required to maintain a given set point is going to be the variable that's being adjusted. You don't have the ability to increase the flow rate beyond this, without adjusting or impacting other variables in the mix.

Also, if your chiller can't keep up with the reservoir (or you don't have one) the reservoir temperature increases during the run. You'll notice that through the run the flow rate through the condenser will need to increase to maintain a given set point (As Temp-In increases, Flow rate needs to Increase to maintain the same Temp-Out, this is probably obvious). So again, coolant loop flow rate is only partially in your control.

Now, there is a different way to plumb the coolant loop so that it's "Constant Flow Rate" - this is a little bit more complicated as it requires the pump to be in the cooling loop, and it also requires the use of a 3-way mixing valve, and not a simple 2-way. However, in this scenario you can increase or decrease the flow rate through the loop (TO AN EXTENT) without impacting the process set point.

This was probably way too much information.

Yamada DP-10F and ARO 666053-344 - Viking S2M for Mash. Also pieced together our mash pump and built the cart.

Unless you have an end-to-end engineered system, you'll probably be better off with a mash pump cart, just provides a little bit more flexibility. The mash pump will probably be heavier than you think as well, so if you are thinking by stationary, you mean you might manually move it around, no way. The small spirit diaphragm pumps are small enough that if you just rigged a base and carrying handle, you'd probably be fine.

I have both ARO and Yamada diaphragm pumps. The ARO is polypropylene and teflon, and the Yamada is all teflon. Both are nice, the ARO is 1/2" and can pump around 12 gpm at full speed, the Yamada is 3/8" and can pump around 2-3 gpm. They don't use much air at all. The Yamada is a pretty small pump, the ARO isn't much bigger. Someone posted a picture here of one mounted to a skateboard, it doesn't need much. Stainless variants aren't really dramatically different, just different housings, slightly heavier.

Mash pump, can't comment on FIP or Centrifugal, as we use a PD lobe pump. But these things get heavy fast, our pump and drive train on the cart has got to be around 250 pounds, and it's only a 3hp pump, it would be impossible to manage without a cart. The FIP and Centrifugals should be a little bit lighter, but if it's anywhere around 2-3 hp, it's going to be 100-150 pounds with the cart, the motors alone are going to be 60-70 pounds. You'll also want to go with a VFD/Speed Control, which is going to be much easier to use if it's cart mounted. If you are buying new, I can't imagine it's going to be significantly more expensive to just buy one of these as a complete system.

UV is disinfection, not filtration, and typically needs to be the final stage in the filtration process, located after a traditional filtration system (since particulates in the water will significantly reduce efficiency).

Do you have some reason to believe your water is high in microbial content and requires additional disinfection/sterilization? I would imagine anyone who is sourcing their water from a modern municipal supply should not have this problem. Lots of municipal water treatment facilities are now using UV (it went out of fashion for a time due to the high operating costs).

Now if you were sourcing your water from surface water or a shallow well, that would be a completely different matter.

It's glucoamylase (aka amyloglucosidase).

Neither Acrylic (Plexiglass) nor Polycarbonate (Lexan) have very good compatibility with ethyl alcohol at typical barrel concentrations (Polycarbonate slightly better). No worry, any decent glass shop can cut you custom circles out of glass. Be liberal with the bees wax and you should be fine.

150psi no bueno, take out life insurance if you are going to attempt that. Hoga needs to let you know the PSI range, but it's likely going to be under 14.7psi. Not sure what the UK low pressure steam limits are.

I use a Hanna pHep 5 - it couldn't be any easier to take temperature adjusted pH readings, since it does it automatically. Just be sure to calibrate it every week or two (use 4.01 and 7.01, since that's the range we work in).

Only takes a second, adjusting with lactic or citric only takes a few minutes. Add small amounts and test until you get a good feeling for exactly how much acid you need to add. Keep the agitator running, and wait a few minutes between additions and testing to be sure you don't overshoot. It honestly doesn't make any sense to try to manage complex calculations to find out exactly how many ml of what molar acid you need. Trial and error until you get a handle. I don't know your batch sizes, but I will stress, if using trial and error, a little goes a long way.

It's relatively easy to adjust pH during the mashing process to hit the optimal enzyme pH with each step. Optimal temp and pH is different across Alpha Amylase, Beta Amylase, Glucoamylase, and Beta Glucanase - those might all be different from the pH you want at pitching time. Depending on what you are doing, you might find that multi-step acidification is useful.

Print out the spec sheets for all the enzymes you are planning to use, study them. They'll all have the optimal pH and temp, as well as the active range and denature temp/pH.

I'd say go with the HTAA, it's more versatile, skip the Beta, replace it with Glucoamylase, since conversion will be better. Unmalted wheat you might find you need to add Beta Glucanase to keep the mash viscosity manageable.

I've seen those units, always wondered if they would be suitable for steam injection mashing.

However, couple downsides for still heating. Many of the sauna/steam room units are not intended to operate under pressure, which means that your steam temperature will be much lower than if you could run a few psi. Second, there is no option for condensate return, which means they will not only waste energy, but water as well.

I suspect they may be talking about a different thing all together, which is a small electrically heated steam boiler, these are sometimes used in small commercial saunas, like you would find in a spa or health club. These units are honest boilers. There are a number of good electric steam boiler manufacturers, Sussman, Chromalox, etc. Fulton does electric as well.

12kw seems a bit on the small side for 300 liters volume, fine to run, but slow to heat.

Overkill but those things are downright cheap. Flex augers nice, but much more expensive.

I-Beam Trolley, Hoist, and a Hopper? But, you'd need to be lucky enough to have placed your mash tun under an i-beam for that to work.

Saw a hammer mill once that had a blower and hose to move grain. That seemed a bit dangerous and potentially messy. Would be hilarious if the output hose disconnected accidentally.

Lower of cost or market (replacement cost).

Purchased a 600 gallon Mueller from Mark last year, very happy with it.

If you need anything, give us a shout, we're only an hour or so north in Clifton.

Plenty of rules here in the states. I envy you guys running in jurisdictions where you can get away with "just about anything". This is not universal, and interpretation can differ widely. I'm not from the EU, but here is my 2 cents anyway.

I suspect this difference in interpretation extends to Europe as well, so no better place to start than your local authorities, since in many situations it will be their interpretation of the rules, regulations, codes that you'll be expected to comply with. In some cases the interpretations can be argued, in some cases personalities involved make it difficult. Raise a glass to you and hope you are in a jurisdiction where the authority doesn't know, and can't be bothered to know.

On the electric side - ATEX is a good place to start, we spent quite a bit of time brushing up on NEC Article 500 for the same reason. The difference between ATEX Zone 1 (Class 1 Division 1) and Zone 2 (Class 1 Division 2) is a big one, and can be a costly interpretation. We ran into this situation specifically, and it's not an easy debate, because the authority will lean to Zone 1, and the budget will lean to Zone 2.

On the plumbing side, if you are steam all those regulations will apply to your still boiler. You may be required to fit and plumb pressure relief valves on your still boiler in addition to any jackets. Not sure what the equivalent of the ASME vessel rules are in Europe, but I'm sure there is a Directive that governs vessels that can potentially be under pressure.

Difficult to even throw out a wild-ass guess, as there are some major wildcards when it comes to the items you list. Your questions are the same we all have (or had), and until you can start working with contractors and getting quotes, you could be in for some sticker shock (or pleasant surprises).

Dalkita has a PDF that they charge about $5 for that has a good property checklist. Certainly worth the 5 bucks, the ROI is pretty massive if you forget an item on the list.

We are wiring most of the place for Class 1 Div 1, and the cost was less than we expected. HOWEVER - we're removing more circuits than we are adding, since it's cheaper to eliminate any nonessential electric than convert it to Class 1 Div 1. So pleasant surprise there.

It seems most everyone gets sticker shock when it comes to the boiler and associated steam fitting. What makes this worse is that you will get quotes that represent massive price differences. Get a couple quotes then roll the dice. Be sure this includes the gas supply plumbing as well, since at 1.5-2 million btus or so, chances are the building is not setup for it.

Also, massive differential in fire suppression costs based on what exists and what doesn't. If you have to run a main back to the street, it's plausible that you may be paying 3x more than someone who has a sprinkler main but no sprinklers connected.

The way we approached this was to find a building that was as close to our parameters as possible, this would reduce the build-out costs significantly. For example, if you've already got sufficient sprinklers, take that to the bank. Sprinklers and sprinkler main sizing is typically a deal breaker for your facility choice. Plenty of horror stories about the AHJ drawing a hard line after buildout had already started.

Because I'm a sucker for a wild ass guess, and since you seem to be focused on the still cost. I'd say your still cost will be approximately 5-10% of your buildout and associated equipment costs, very very roughly. Extrapolate from there, perhaps. Really though, get the checklist and start getting quotes, add at least 25% buffer to each to account for unexpected costs.

Keep an eye on the output and valve size, they tend to be on the small side. Used to work in a restaurant that had a big kettle, half the time we would end up ladling the sauce out with a stock pot because the output would plug up solid.