BWFiggins

Anyone know where to get 750ml amber swing top bottles in pallet quantities?

Yes, Dave, here you go. If a 750 ml volume is optional, my contact has a one-litre swing-top in amber, and his name is John Jones from Berlin Packaging, a company that has recently acquired the catalogue of Freund Packaging. Pallet pricing differs greatly from the listed case prices. Tell him that I referred you:

www.freundcontainer.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_1101B01_A_ss_E_swing-top

John.Jones@BerlinPackaging.com

651.578.9606

You're welcome!

I have maybe an odd question.

When running a steam fired spirit still, 2070 liters capacity a vapor escapes during the first 2-3 minutes at the beginning of the spirit run. It feels cold but it does not turn liquid and escapes with some pressure. The smell is not very nice..

The grainbill of the spirit is only based on optic barley, peated at 35-40 ppm, fermented using distillers yeast.

Any idea what it is???

Thanks

Ethyl acetate and acetaldehyde, both pre-cursors of acetic acid, and both very volatile at low temperatures. Quite normal, really, but you will reduce these by-products in subsequent batches when hygiene improves and microbial decay of ethyl alcohol is reduced.

Hi,

I'm from the UK. There's very little by way of micro distilleries over here. It is not a very British thing to aspire to.

Happily, I'm not very British, and I aspire to it! Are there any Britons on these forums? I do realize that this is an Ameri-centric forum, and quite right.

About me; I am currently dancing around the idea of distillation as a career. It is daunting because there is so much to learn, and so few ways to learn it outside of time and experience. In the UK it is even more difficult because we are definitely a "can't do" society, which is a shame.

I am vaguely considering the courses at the International Centre for Brewing and Distilling (ICBD) in Scotland. Has anyone heard anything about them?

Ideally I would like to learn on the job. I am currently a craftsman by trade (metalworker) and believe that experience based learning cannot be overestimated. Unfortunately jobs in the smaller distilleries that I would be interested in are rare as hen's teeth.

-Dan

Hi Dan,

I am an American distiller and I received my credentials from the Institute of Brewing & Distilling in London. They offer a General Certificate of Distilling (four-hour examination) and a Graduate Diploma of Distilling (in modules). I hold both, and I highly recommend the coursework. You can even attend externally and take the examination at your local school or college after reviewing the study materials that they will send to you. Quite affordable, too! What about combining your metal-smithing with distillation and build small stills for the industry?

Send off a note whenever you'd like to "talk shop!"

All the best,

Rusty

Hi Ryan,

I am known for offering a good word of encouragement. Please do us the honour of becoming a registered member of the forum if you are asking for guidance and financial backing. Perhaps I can help: Email me

I am taking some 100% rye spirit "white rye" to some liquor outlets next week. I am putting together a list of "serving suggestions" to help with marketing.

Are there any mixologists out there with some good recipes please?

The flavour scientists at McCormick Spices (no connection to McCormick Distillery) said a couple of years ago that rye whisky pairs well with any foods that have sage in them.

As for cocktails, keep in mind that your new-make rye spirit is no doubt peppery or spicy, so dream up your proprietary cocktail recipes accordingly!

I am wondering what people do to clean their bottles when it comes time to package. Thank you.

Are you using dirty bottles?

Spirits-grade glass, while still quite warm, gets packed with each bottle placed upside-down in the carton, or the whole carton is inverted when it is stacked onto a pallet. Quite generally, this is to avoid any dust particles or cardboard specks from entering the glass, though some still make it inside. A one-second sparge of compressed gas such as nitrogen, carbon dioxide or beverage gas (a mixture of both) is what you need to rid the bottle of any particulate, while the bottle is inverted of course.

How does one sterilize each bottle (I always get this one)? Why, just place your spirits inside it, of course!

Have a great bottling session, and don't forget to supply everyone with powder-free latex gloves!

All the best,

Hi All,

My name is Aaron and my wife and I are at the beginning of our journey as distillers with an eye towards opening our own distillery. I'm overwhelmed and grateful for all the information that is available here on the ADI forum. A big thank you to all of you who are sharing your knowledge and hard earned opinions!

Welcome Aaron, and in what part of the country do the two of you reside? What products do you wish to create?

All the best,

BWF

does anyone have a source for hydrometers, density meters and thermometers for tax determination?

Hi Colin, try these:

www.nova-techusa.com for thermometers and Bellwether hydrometers, and

www.anton-paar.com for their DMA-35 densitometer, it's just tops!

A happy and prosperous new year to you!

Rusty

Put in a call to Five Star Chemicals, and tell them what you need. They'll help you out. Small company that's been working with breweries, wineries, dairies, and distilleries for quite a while. You need something caustic, followed by something acidic, and that's it.

Make sure you clean after your whisky distillation before you switch to gin. Going from Gin to Whiskey shouldn't be your problem---- emphasis on shouldn't. If it has anise it the charge, be absolutely sure to clean it before making a different spirit.

Happy Holidays!

Hey Free Range,

Our caustic agent is potassium hydroxide, a more environment-friendly alternative to sodium hydroxide (lye), and our acidic agent is citric acid. Just drip dry, and your copper will be shiny and new, ready for the next batch of anything that you're producing.

Just one producer's perspective!

Best wishes to you at Christmastime,

Rusty

Has anyone here ever fell victim to barrel contamination? I'm curious how to tell if the barrels are bad or not. Sure, it should be obvious, but I'm not so sure. I've got a mossy/mushroom aroma that seems to be some sort of contamination. What would cause this? Is there a way to test for it other than taste and smell?

Hi Phil,

You only fall victim to barrel contamination if you place your spirits within that cask. Trust your nose, you have some kind of funk in that barrel. Try a strong solution of soda ash in hot water, followed by even stronger citric acid solution, and you may be able to sweeten up that musty barrel. One should be able to smell either toasted oak, the product that once was in that barrel prior to it being emptied, or some of both. Also, avoid filling barrels that smell like acetone, as nail-polish remover will be the striking feature of your aged spirits. Make a planter out of that cask if it cannot be revived!

I think all distillers should get handy with a hoop driver and hammer once in awhile, and take a head off of a barrel and inspect what is inside. It will make you appreciate the cooper's trade ever so much more!

All the best,

Rusty

Welcome to the top of the heap!

You can try AO Wilson in Ontario Canada http://www.aowilson.ca/

My supplier is Phil at ACI Cork ( [url=]"http://www.acicorkusa.com"[/url] ), and they are the best in the business. 1000 bar-top corks with wooden tops for $145.00! Tell him I sent you!

All the best,

Rusty

And based on the reasons Robert mentions, the traditional production of cognac is direct fired and therefore, obsolete.

True indeed, Cheryl, direct firing has hardly been relegated to obsolescence in all the distilling districts of France. There, it is not only alive and well, but it is compulsory as a matter of law to distil with wood or gas flame in Cognac, Armagnac and Calvados. From Robert's viewpoint, however, it is not a method to consider because of his involvement in the sales of steam and water bath equipment. One cannot discount direct-immersion electric as means of directly heating the substrate. No scorching!

All the best,

She was only a whiskey maker, but he loved her still

I love that one! A close version of the old saying was trademarked by Athena Malts in Oregon a while back.

I'm trying to find some fittings for a valve on an old milk tank. I can't seem to find what standard they are. Does anyone recognize the standard from this photo?

It's a coarse pitch and the threads are flat.

Regards,

Steven

Sound Spirits

Hi Steven,

It's 1.5-inch dairy. Have J.J. from Central Industrial Sales in Pasco adapt it to 1.5" Tri-clover for you. 509.727.1518.

All the best,

Rusty

All,

I was wondering if any of you know where there might be scheduled workshops in Scotland this remaining year. I have an opportunity to be in Europe for several weeks and if it were possible to attend a workshop during that time, it would really be appealing. So, if any of you know of links or specific distilleries I could contact, please let me know.

If I have enough time, i think I'll probably will try to find a workshop in the Cognac or Armagnac region of France as well.

yves

Try looking into the Bruichladdich Whisky Academy at their distillery in Islay.

I'll take one!

Dear Dusty and Jesse;

Allow to say thank you for the great packaging and speedy shipping. I received this thief on the other side of the country from you in just two days after you received payment.

I am reviewing its performance and will send my observations to you in a private message. Anyone who is interested in my review should contact me off-site.

All the best,

Rusty

Our city just announced the addition, beginning July 1, of Chloramines (a compound of chlorine and ammonia) to the public water supply. It has caused quite a stir. I searched this Forum and came up with just a quick mention of them.

Does anyone have comments,opinions or experience with them in distilling process?

Thanks,

Bob

One gram of ascorbic acid per 75 gallons neutralizes and precipitates the 3 ppm of chloramine present in municipal water. All unbound chlorine gas comes off with the fore-shots. It is always advisable to purify your process water prior to brewing, so in-line filtration would be the primary choice before you went with the Vitamin C method.

My $0.02 worth!

All the best,

Rusty

finally!! a picture,ha! One is spoken for...two available at this point.

I'll take one!

Anyone can legally put a "TM" next to anything they want, without any government approval or registration. It is intended to represent notice that you intend to seek protection for the mark, so in that sense it is not entirely meaningless. Typically one creates a mark, puts the "TM" on it, then submits the mark for registration. When registration is granted you are entitled to use the ® which signifies a registered trademark.

(I am providing this for general information only and it should not be construed as legal advice.)

Excellent insight, Chuck. You are right on the money!

As far as I know, Big Bend Community College (Moses Lake, Washington) is still marketing its course as Artisan Craft Distilling Workshop, with no plan to trademark that phrase. If challenged, it will most likely use the words short-course or seminar to convey the same thing, relatively speaking. The one-week symposium will still attract upwards of 50 attendees every six months, under any name it chooses.

Berle,

You are right. We should remain civil. I'm sure Dr. Berglund is a fine person.

However, legal actions always get people's hackles up, and I was profoundly bothered by getting the impersonal note that I received for what is an absurd trademark. His action on this issue was bothersome.

Scott

Hi Scott,

We are all human, and thankfully so! It is my prediction that Kris Berglund will respond in due course, and he may even temper his position in light of the prevailing opinions and objections.

All the best,

Dear Colleagues;

I wish it to be known that I am personally in awe of Dr Kris Berglund's depth of knowledge concerning the physical principles of distillation. He is a real treasure to this industry, and should be recognised as an outstanding educator.

In the matter of his seeking trademark protection for the phrase Artisan Distilling Workshop, it is plain to see here that there is an overwhelming feeling of objection toward this application. I respectfully objected to his claim in the appropriate manner, and I think that it is a matter of personal choice if you wish to object in your own way. In keeping with the sense of great civility that we share on this discussion forum, however, I urge everyone to please refrain from character judgements, emotionally charged sentiment and vitriol. I fully admire the impassioned nature of craft distillers, but we have not yet heard from the good doctor on this issue since receiving his 'cease and desist' letters.

Dr Berglund, despite his recent need to seek trademark protection of a seemingly generic phrase, is a soft-spoken scientist, an intellectual giant, and a luminary in the discipline of distillation science, irrespective of what you may think of his academic post. We have been together on the same panel of speakers at a conference, and I otherwise have a great deal of respect for him. Please proceed in a calm manner if in fact yours is the stronger, wiser position, and the right way will be chosen!

All the very best,

Berle W Figgins, Jr

Hi! I've been looking at this forum for a couple of months. I've learned a lot! Now that we appear to be close to getting our permit from the TTB, I thought I'd introduce myself. My partner Bruce and I have established Tree Spirits in Oakland, Maine. We intend to produce sprkling apple and maple wine, apple and maple brandy and perhaps plum brandy. I look forward to meeting you through the forum.

Steve

Welcome, Steve!

I have been offered an heirloom variety of plums from this year's harvest off of 40-year-old trees, and I am hoping to make a first-rate slivovitz. Here's to great success with your project, and be sure to trade thoughts with the group any time you need an ear!

All the best,

Rusty

My letter of protest has been filed.

A sample petition, as entered this morning:

Name

Affiliation

Street Address

City, State, ZIP Code

Dear Sir/Madam;

This petitioner objects to the phrase Artisan Distilling Workshop being granted trademark protection.

On the grounds that the phrase Artisan Distilling Workshop is such a generic term, and that if protected use is awarded to the applicant, it would preclude others, already engaged in offering similar educational programs, from using the phrase in printed material or even in the course of spoken promotional activities.

I personally know of a shortcourse called the Artisan Craft Distilling Workshop, offered by Big Bend Community College in Moses Lake, Washington. I believe that because the coursework has become identified by this title, removing the college's right to use the phrase would only serve to create antagonism and demonstrate ill-will amongst industry colleagues whose interests would otherwise be to offer educational opportunities ahead of financial gain.

Protecting one's commercial interests is a fundamental right that is shared by all, but this petitioner respectfully takes exception to the generic phrase Artisan Distilling Workshop being for the sole use of one individual.

Thank you for your kind attention,

//s//

Name

e-mail Address

I was talking to a brewery about purchasing beer for distillation. I thought this was a viable option, but this is all I can find. Does anyone else do this? If so, can you please explain it. According to the TTB, this is the only way.

Removal of Beer to a Contiguous Distilled Spirits Plant

§ 25.201 Removal by pipeline.

A brewer may remove beer from the brewery, without payment of tax, by pipeline to the bonded premises of a distilled spirits plant which is authorized to produce distilled spirits and which is located contiguous to the brewery.

(Sec. 201, Pub. L. 85–859, 72 Stat. 1365, as amended, 1389, as amended (26 U.S.C. 5222, 5412))

Perfect! Yes this is quite allowable provided that your DSP is adjacent to the brewery in question. Mine is, but it is still not permitted in my case, because in certain states, like mine, bulk beer transfers are not permitted. This is just fine for me, because I purchase the custom-produced wort, and then I monitor the fermentation myself, the way I prefer to handle it anyway.

All the best,

Rusty