BWFiggins

My name is Marc and I'm in the process of opening a distillery, Pacific Distillery LLC, in Woodinville WA, just outside of Seattle. I have the building set and am negotiating the lease. I plan to specialize in Gin and Absinthe.

Hi Marc, and good luck with the rest of the establishment process! We are likely to meet soon, and I know that one day we'll have a Washington trade association of some sort. The domain name, www.wcd.org.ag, is already secured for the formation of Washington Craft Distillers, if you become interested.

All the very best, fellow Washingtonian!

Rusty

I have been dreaming of owning and operating a distillery for many years, and I am currently working on it. I am new to the forum, and would like to say hello.

Could someone tell me about the bond that is required?

Thanks.

Sharon

Dear Sharon,

Welcome to the ADI Forum, and all of us here have dreamt the same thing for that long, as well! Hello to you, and good luck on making it a reality.

The bond that you are after is a surety bond that safeguards the potential tax liability of your product in case of theft, accidental loss, acts of God, or other forms of loss that would otherwise deprive the government of their law-appointed right to their fair share. Your surety bond is an insurance policy that covers these types of loss, or rather, the tax liability portion of it. A bond for a small distillery could be purchased for under $1000.00 per year, but it is proportional to volume produced. One would never under-bond his/her distillery; over-bonding by a large amount is not wise either.

All the very best,

Rusty

Dear Lynn,

Welcome to the ADI Forum, and to this industry. If gender matters, I know of a woman here in Washington who is just now starting, too. Margot Arellano from Sandoval Spirits in Tieton, WA will be making fruit eau-de-vie. I have yet not seen her on this forum, however.

The camaraderie here is phenomenal and I think we all pledge that you will be shown such a great level professional courtesy as we watch your project develop! Contribute often, and soon you'll lose the "Newbie" status.

All the very best,

Rusty

Has anyone started off with an experimental license from the TTB? I have not spoken with anyone who has actually done it this way, but several people in the industry (lawyers, new distillers) have recommended I take this path, including the TTB representative I spoke with last week. Is there any benefit, or am I just creating a headache for myself down the road?

Lynn

Dear Lynn,

You should apply for an Alcohol Fuel Producer permit, an AFP, and anything that you make on an experimental basis should be eventually destroyed. This keeps any distilling activity legal, while you are learning the craft and perfecting your "recipe". As long as does not leave the premises, it need not be denatured. You will surrender your AFP when you are awarded your DSP.

All the best,

Rusty

Hello to all.

I am Jim Blansit, owner of the Big Rock Distillery. I have just finished the construction stage of a 2160 square foot building located 10 miles north of Branson Missouri. My wife and I are lucky enough to live in the beautiful Ozark Mountains and just 800 feet from the distillery. We are expecting our 145 gallon pot still next week!!

Now it is time for all those wonderful forms... We hope to be open by the end of the year...Our focus is whiskey and rum along with a "moonshine" product for all the tourist that come to visit. The great state of Missouri allows us to have a sample room with retails sales at the distillery!!

I have enjoyed reading this forum and look forward to joining all of you in this great adventure!

Cheers, Jim

Welcome to the ADI Forum and a growing industry! Good l;uck with everything as you get your operation in order.

All the best,

Rusty

Randall, from Newport Beach CA here.

I'm a total newbie and currently in the tedious licensing process.

Welcome to the ADI Forum, Randall, and good luck with your licensing. What type spirits do you wish to produce?

All the best,

Rusty

I'd be interested in hearing feedback from artisan distillers about the value of competitions. Which ones are the most respected, do consumers/retailers/restaurateurs value the results?

As an industry, should we be concerned about the judges and their understanding about how to evaluate spirits properly?

Entering competitions says something about the maker's confidence in his own product. I have found it more useful to receive a high score in a trade journal than to win a gold medal at a regional competition. Retailers and restaurateurs value respectable scores because they motivate consumers to seek out new products that garner them.

I have always enjoyed F. Paul Pacult's spirits judging (be sure to read his Spirit Journal) found in every issue of Wine Enthusiast, but it is the most unlikely magazine where one would look first for such ratings. To their discredit in the minds of some, they once awarded "Distiller of the Year" to Johnnie Walker, a brand of blended Scotch whisky put together from the product of numerous distillers, calling into question whether there truly is a firewall between editorial and advertising.

A great read is always Wine & Spirits, and their ratings are widely respected. For whiskies, one really must submit their samples to Malt Advocate and Whisky magazine, as they both give great attention to all superb bottlings regardless of production scale. I have not as yet found a consumer's periodical devoted to artisan-distilled spirits of all kinds, but perhaps there is room for such a magazine.

To raise the bar to the highest standard of spirits journalism (Spirit Journal holds that title currently), I invite anyone that might be interested to assist me in starting a guide that I will call The Artisan Spirits Quarterly. We will recuse ourselves from rating any of our own spirits, of course!

All the very best,

Rusty

Welcome to the ADI Forum, Ryan! Good luck on the progress on River Town Distillery, and I echo your gratitude toward the work of Dry Fly Distilling for making Washington's distillation laws more progressive!

All the best,

Rusty

I figured I'd best introduce myself after reading everyones posts for a while. I'm Ryan Hembree from Snohomish (north of Seattle, WA) and am working towards starting up a small distillery.

A bit of background: I'm enrolled in Washington State University's Enology Certifate program and will wrap it up at the end of this year after 19 months of study. While enology is not distilling I've learned a ton on chemistry, micro-biology, fermentation, sanitation, legal issues as well as some decent business planning info. Day job is in economic development.

I've been studying and reading now on distilling for almost a year and am looking forward to putting knowledge to use. I've also been a homebrewer for a while and recently attended one of CARL's workshops which helped further drive my ideas.

Also, thanks to Dry Fly for their work changing our states antiqued laws and opening the door for others.

Cheers!

Ryan Hembree

Wow, you are interested in brandy? Welcome aboard!

You pretty much have it. The next batch is getting pre-heated by a 'chauffe-vin' while the current batch is being distilled. The flame-heated Cognac still, or alambic Charentaise, is the simplest and truest of the pot stills, and the distillate always requires a second distillation to obtain cask strength.

I have the country's most complete library of books on brandy production, so please write if you have a "burning" question that ought to be answered off-site. Please consider attending ADI's brandy seminar in April 2009.

All the very best,

Berle "Rusty" Figgins, Jr

Dynamic Alambic Artisan Distillers

Mattawa, Washington

BWFiggins@DynamicAlambic.com

Hi;

Does anyone understand how Cognac is made?

I've been looking at Cognac stills, and have found very little that describes the operation. It looks like the distillate is fed through a smaller pot (not quite a thumper) that pre-heats the next batch of wine. The middle pot (not quite a thumper) is then drained into the boiler and distillation resumes. What is going on?

A very good synopsis of the issue, Melkon, and I offer our unbridled support!

I took a cue from you, and added to your list at the bottom, in petition form, with the details of my two distilleries. I suggest that all other supporters who wish to add their company names and addresses to this draft "petition" should do so accordingly.

All the very best,

Berle W "Rusty" Figgins, Jr

The Ellensburg Distillery and Dynamic Alambic Artisan Distillers

As a follow up to the discussion from the DEFINING "CRAFT" DISTILLERY thread, here's a one-page position document for all of us to discuss, finalize, gather support for from fellow spirits makers and take to our federal legislators ASAP to create a new, lower federal excise tax tier for small-scale spirits maker. The structure below closely follows the TTB's existing format.

As I only had a short window to put this together, please double-check all facts and figures before we take this to broader audiences.

______________________________________________________________________

Small Spirits Makers' Equal Tax Act

Goal

Encourage the growth of hand-crafted spirits production in the U.S. by creating a reduced federal excise tax rate for small-scale distilled spirits makers, similar to the current reduced tiers for beer and wine producers.

Background

The distilled spirits industry has enjoyed a renaissance of local, artisan production of unique spirits over the last five years. Our numbers have swelled from less than 40 licensed makers in 2003 to more than 150 in 2008. Because of our efforts, U.S. and even some overseas consumers are beginning to experience innovation and quality in spirits products they can find in the marketplace that mirror what beer lovers enjoyed with the birth of micro-brewers in the 1980s-1990s and wine lovers with the emergence of the independent winemakers in the 1970s-1980s.

What made the growth of small beer and wine makers possible -- other than hard work and passion -- was a reduced federal excise tax rate that allowed them to compete with much larger producers who benefited from the economies of large-scale production. Today, small-scale beer producers pay 39% of the $18 per barrel in federal excise tax for the first 60,000 barrels they make if they produce less than 2 million barrels per year. Similarly, small producers of average-proof wine (<14% alcohol) pay 18% of the $1.07 per gallon in federal excise tax for the first 100,000 gallons they remove provided they make no more than 150,000 gallons per year.

To put this in context, small beer producers pay $0.02 vs $0.05 in federal excise tax per 12 oz can, while small wine producers pay $0.04 vs $0.21 per 750 ml bottle.

By contrast, spirits makers -- large or small -- pay the same $13.50 per proof gallon or $2.14 per 80-proof 750 ml bottle of spirits.

Proposal

Small-scale spirits producers need a similar reduced-rate federal excise tax structure to continue to innovate and compete effectively with large-scale producers. We the undersigned producers propose the following structure to bring balance to small distilled spirits producers that mirrors the excise rates of small beer and wine producers: Tier one/regular -- 100% rate, Tier two/small-scale -- 20% rate.

Proposed Distilled Spirits Excise Tax Rates

Distilled Spirits.............Proof Gallons*.............750ml Bottle

Regular Rate................$13.50.......................$2.14 (at 80 proof)

Reduced Rate**............$2.70.........................$0.43 (at 80 proof)

* A proof gallon is a gallon of liquid that is 100 proof, or 50% alcohol. The tax is adjusted, depending on the percentage of alcohol of the product.

** Reduced Rate -- For the first 60,000 gallons of spirits if producers make no more than 100,000 gallons per year.

Producers who support this legislation

1. Modern Spirits LLC 168 W Pomona Ave, Monrovia, CA 91016

2. Ellensburg Distillery LLC 1000 N Prospect St, Ellensburg, WA 98926

3. Dynamic Alambic Artisan Distillers LLC 20140 Rd 24 SW, Mattawa, WA 99349

A very good synopsis of the issue, Melkon, and I offer our unbridled support!

I took a cue from you, and added to your list at the bottom, in petition form, with the details of my two distilleries. I suggest that all other supporters who wish to add their company names and addresses to this draft "petition" should do so accordingly.

All the very best,

Berle W "Rusty" Figgins, Jr

The Ellensburg Distillery and Dynamic Alambic Artisan Distillers

As a follow up to the discussion from the DEFINING "CRAFT" DISTILLERY thread, here's a one-page position document for all of us to discuss, finalize, gather support for from fellow spirits makers and take to our federal legislators ASAP to create a new, lower federal excise tax tier for small-scale spirits maker. The structure below closely follows the TTB's existing format.

As I only had a short window to put this together, please double-check all facts and figures before we take this to broader audiences.

______________________________________________________________________

Small Spirits Makers' Equal Tax Act

Goal

Encourage the growth of hand-crafted spirits production in the U.S. by creating a reduced federal excise tax rate for small-scale distilled spirits makers, similar to the current reduced tiers for beer and wine producers.

Background

The distilled spirits industry has enjoyed a renaissance of local, artisan production of unique spirits over the last five years. Our numbers have swelled from less than 40 licensed makers in 2003 to more than 150 in 2008. Because of our efforts, U.S. and even some overseas consumers are beginning to experience innovation and quality in spirits products they can find in the marketplace that mirror what beer lovers enjoyed with the birth of micro-brewers in the 1980s-1990s and wine lovers with the emergence of the independent winemakers in the 1970s-1980s.

What made the growth of small beer and wine makers possible -- other than hard work and passion -- was a reduced federal excise tax rate that allowed them to compete with much larger producers who benefited from the economies of large-scale production. Today, small-scale beer producers pay 39% of the $18 per barrel in federal excise tax for the first 60,000 barrels they make if they produce less than 2 million barrels per year. Similarly, small producers of average-proof wine (<14% alcohol) pay 18% of the $1.07 per gallon in federal excise tax for the first 100,000 gallons they remove provided they make no more than 150,000 gallons per year.

To put this in context, small beer producers pay $0.02 vs $0.05 in federal excise tax per 12 oz can, while small wine producers pay $0.04 vs $0.21 per 750 ml bottle.

By contrast, spirits makers -- large or small -- pay the same $13.50 per proof gallon or $2.14 per 80-proof 750 ml bottle of spirits.

Proposal

Small-scale spirits producers need a similar reduced-rate federal excise tax structure to continue to innovate and compete effectively with large-scale producers. We the undersigned producers propose the following structure to bring balance to small distilled spirits producers that mirrors the excise rates of small beer and wine producers: Tier one/regular -- 100% rate, Tier two/small-scale -- 20% rate.

Proposed Distilled Spirits Excise Tax Rates

Distilled Spirits.............Proof Gallons*.............750ml Bottle

Regular Rate................$13.50.......................$2.14 (at 80 proof)

Reduced Rate**............$2.70.........................$0.43 (at 80 proof)

* A proof gallon is a gallon of liquid that is 100 proof, or 50% alcohol. The tax is adjusted, depending on the percentage of alcohol of the product.

** Reduced Rate -- For the first 60,000 gallons of spirits if producers make no more than 100,000 gallons per year.

Producers who support this legislation

1. Modern Spirits LLC 168 W Pomona Ave, Monrovia, CA 91016

2. Ellensburg Distillery LLC 1000 N Prospect St, Ellensburg, WA 98926

3. Dynamic Alambic Artisan Distillers LLC 20140 Rd 24 SW, Mattawa, WA 99349

It's been a frustrating day. The State Fire Marshal gave us his blessing on our distillery more than a year ago, but somehow the City Fire Marshal over-rides his authority (??) and basically told us 'NO'. After many drafts of discussion on our production and storage, he said that we could continue the conversation if we can show that 40% alcohol by volume is a "combustible liquid" and not a "flammable liquid". I've had to scrap the idea of storing any barrels on-site; off-site will have to do. The definition of a "combustible liquid" according to the International Fire Code (2003) is a "liquid having a closed cup flash point at or above 100F (38C)".

Questions: Does anyone have an MSDS that shows the flash point on 40% abv spirits at 100F or above?

Is there any other source that shows this?

Thanks,

Zac

Zac Triemert

Co-President

The Sòlas Distillery

Omaha, NE

Hi Zac,

I have attached an MSDS from a distillery in Wales. I hope it helps you to get the fire marshal's blessing.

All the best,

Rusty

Berle W Figgins, Jr

The Ellensburg Distillery

Ellensburg, WA

MSDS_for_40__ABV_EtOH.pdf

Our Fire Marshal would like to see an MSDS for the spirits that we are going to store in an oak barrel, about 130 proof. Does anyone have a source for an MSDS for spirits at this alcohol concentration?

Thanks,

Zac Triemert

The Solas Distillery

Omaha, NE

Hi Zac,

I have an MSDS for 140 proof which will work in your case. It is as attached.

All the best,

Rusty

ethanol_MSDS.pdf