BWFiggins

Hello all. My name is Alexander Kaspar and I own Valley View Farm, some 440 acres only 49 miles north of New York City. Some buildings, barns and one house. Now we have farm distillery license law in NY allowing production of up to 35,000 gallons I would like to partner with a distiller and produce some fine spirits. Have an 8000sq.ft building suitable to house the still and some excellent water to feed it. Would look at Vodka and/or Grappa. Thank you for reading this post.

Welcome to the forum and to the industry! You would do well to speak to Mr Ralph Erenzo at Tuthilltown Spirits:

http://tuthilltown.com/QUALITY/home.html

Please come back often!

All the best,

Rusty

I tried to purchase TTB approved hydrometers yesterday, only to find that "R" size can not easily be shipped because it is listed as a hazardous material. To have it shipped from one of the two companies I tried (Fisher Scientific and Cole Parmer), both places required a full blown account to be set up, which can take days to process. Does anyone have a reliable, hassle free lab equipment supply company that stocks TTB approved instruments they would be willing to recommend?

Hi Jessica,

Try this link:

http://www.novatech-usa.com/

NovaTech carries Bellwether hydrometers in any range of proof that you may need. I obtained the 60 to 80 proof, and the 80 to 120 proof from this supplier, and both were $37.50 each. No account necessary. The hazardous material is the mercury found in hydrometers that also feature a thermometer to compensate for temperature variances, as hydrometers for spirits are only accurate at 60 degrees Fahrenheit. An adjustment factor can also be done mathematically and most gauging manuals have a section on this.

Good luck,

Rusty

Hi my name is Mikael (Mike) Taib. I have been bartending and managing for the past five years. In this time I have come to find that the industry is missing a few items. While this was happening Dry Fly was also getting the law changed in Washington State. We will soon be breaking ground somewhere on the east side.

Hello Mikael and Daisy, and welcome!

Were just chugging away toward gaining that critical mass necessary for an interesting craft distilling industry in Washington, and your contribution is highly welcome. Come on over for a VIP tour and tasting whenever you can cross the mountains.

All the best,

Rusty

Hi Jonathan,

Do you think it might be wise to allow distilleries the opportunity to opt-in or opt-out before being included in a Google directory? Just think of the flurry of cold-calls from vendors that will result? Now, some people want this kind of attention, I know, but most would rather control how they are promoted.

What are your thoughts on this, and does anyone else have an opinion?

Rusty

I've been hearing some conflicting information lately about what the alcohol strength of a wine or wash should be for distilling. As an example, you can make a whiskey wash that ferments to 5% or one to 10% abv and distill it. If the recipe is the same, just the weaker one has more water, will there be a difference in the final whiskey?

Same question goes for rum, etc. Yes, you have to strip more quantity with the lower abv wash, and less with the higher abv wash, but will there be any difference in the final spirit?

The difference is less volume with the lower % ABV wash, meaning that your efficiencies are decreased. That is to say, with heat-up time for your boiler being the same for all substrates, the wash with the higher % ABV will be more efficiently distilled, from a cost of energy:spirit yield perspective. Quality could be kept constant if the mashbill is all the same, and the only difference is less volume of water.

Last week, I distilled 240 gallons of a 15.5% ABV wine in one day and yielded almost 25% of my volume returned to me as high-quality brandy (57 gallons). The composite measured 58% ABV.

Jonathan, what conflicting information are you hearing?

All the best,

Rusty

Not exactly. The $100 license is only if all your distilled products are made from at least 51% Washington State grown products, otherwise it's $2000 for a general distiller's license.

Actually, Marc, $100 is exactly what I paid for my class of license, as the source of my raw product is 100% Washingtonian. You're of course correct about the other category, and lateshiftdistiller would find it useful to know that $2000 is still the current fee here in Washington for the license that gives you more freedom from a sourcing perspective. As enacted July 1st this past summer, the less-expensive Craft Distillery category however carries with it the ability to offer samples and sell product on the premises that a distillery has crafted there.

So, in Washington anyway, we get to pick our choice of freedoms and pay the appropriate fee.

I am happy about our new fee structure, and others may do well to look into what was referred to as Washington's Craft Distillery bill and usher in some reform in their own state. It will take some persistent lobbying by industry leaders, and plenty of good will on the part of legislators, to get it done.

$100 in Washington. It took legislative action to make that happen.

From the wine regs:

§24.216 Distilling material.

Wine may be produced on bonded wine premises from grapes and other fruit, natural

fruit products, or fruit residues, for use as distilling material, using any quantity of water

desired to facilitate fermentation or distillation. No sugar may be added in the production

of distilling material. Distillates containing aldehydes may be used in the fermentation of

wine to be used as distilling material. Lees, filter wash, and other wine residues may also

be accumulated on bonded wine premises for use as distilling material. (Sec. 201, Pub.

L. 85-859, 72 Stat. 1380, as amended, 1381, as amended, 1382, as amended (26

U.S.C. 5361, 5373))

You can water down distilling material (like in using water to rinse lees from the bottom of the tank - but you aren't supposed to add sugar.

Side question. Apple wine may have sugar added. Wine can be transferred to the DM account and removed to a DSP. But does it have to follow the rule as if originally intended for distlling material? or would you call it 'apple wine brandy'.

<private shudder>

A good point to ponder, Tom.

True, that one may add sugar, or chaptalise, if the intended final product is apple wine. The rule against doing so, if one intends to distill it into eau-de-vie and label it as apple brandy, is because the final distillate would be a combination of brandy and rum, since sugar was added. There is still a way to bottle this product, as in "spirit of apple cider" but you would not be permitted to call it brandy. Isn't Calvados a great example for making fine apple brandy? No chaptalisation, no hydration, no acidulation and a minimum of three years in the barrel.

All the best,

Rusty

A half-round dairy tank (400 gallons) with lift-up covers and stirring motor is the vessel we use. A commercial boiler for the hot water is necessary to get it up to temperature quickly and economically.

Welcome Dave, so where in the world are you? Your profile is empty & your post as well ~ do tell!

Yeah Dave, give us some more background so that we may profile you!

The standard in Cognac uses the following designations:

VS (Very Special) at least three years in barrel

VSOP (Very Superior Old Pale) under six years in barrel, but never less than four

XO (Extra Old) over six years in barrel (although most XOs are made up of much older brandies, with no single component being less than six full years in barrel

While I understand there are variations to the practice of aging, is there a standard amount of aging that is required to produce a fruit brandy?

Hi Jeffery,

This is how I understand it to be: If the Class is "brandy" then it is understood to be grape-based, in which case the minimum is two years of barrel maturation. If any modifier to this class is used, say "cherry brandy," then it is not compulsory that it be aged.

If anyone understands this to be somewhat contrary to what I have stated, please post your comments.

Thanks,

Rusty

We are interested in distilling a vodka from potato or grain, or a combination. We want to be efficient and produce 1000+ gallons a month. Pot stills are hands on, with more flavor etc.? Reflux stills would be more efficient? Column stills would produce continually? Does anyone have any information on what would work for our product? What kind of water is needed? Yeasts? We have many questions!

Mr Stone is correct. You should build a column reflux still for your project, or I can construct one for you. I will have some extra engineering and consulting time this winter to offer some help in this regard.

Alaska is now on the map and would like to be involved in the distillation community. A few of us are interested in distilling alaskan potatoes and possible combinations of grain to make a vodka.......and have many, many questions. Any resources would be greatly appreciated. We are trying to do things the right way, with the right equipment. Please feel free to respond and contact me anytime.

Welcome to the forum! I hope you find some answers here.

All the best,

Rusty

Welcome to the forum, Matt! I wish you well on your research! You'll get an education here for certain.

All the very best,

Rusty

Thanks for the advice Rusty. While I'd like to keep cost as low as possible, I would also ideally have a Brix reading without having to do manual temp correction as I am always trying to limit the possiblity of human error! But still, I will look at a hydrometer instead...

If we do go with a brix meter instead, is it smart to spend $300 on a PAL digital Brix meters, which I think are made by Atago? Or are the less expensive ones that look a little like the top of a clarinet sufficient? I found a couple that claim to have ATC and are listed for between $60 and $100.

Thanks again,

Sarah

Sarah,

The optical type that have the prism (yes, resembling a clarinet) are perfectly sufficient. The prices have really fallen, too! Get some sugar standards to calibrate the high end of the scale, and use distilled water to check for zero.

Good luck,

Rusty

I am just curious - of those with working distilleries, how many have been able to quit their day jobs? We are still all working other jobs - a challenge, to say the least!

No chance of that happening for some years to come. But there will be a day when it is fully supporting of a couple of living-wage salaries, maybe in three years in the best case and five in the worst case. You have to love it, and I just happen to!

Rusty

Just a little question: We need to buy a brix meter and I was wondering if there is a particular style or brand that others like?

Thanks!

Hello New York!

Mine is an Atago, and it is very accurate in its old age (20+ years). Make sure that you get an automatically temperature compensating (ATC) unit, and be prepared to pay $150 - $200. Why not consider a much less expensive degree Brix hydrometer? Get one of these with the built-in thermometer for adjusting your final reading.

Hope this helps,

Rusty

We're north of Davenport, south of Kettle Falls at a wide spot in the road better known as the Hunters/Fruitland area. As for the TTB form it's in the system. Curious though, I heard through the David Blume blog that TTB was overwhelmed with applications and were sending out preliminary approvals post haste....that is for fuel production.

" might you be interested in making beverage alcohol?".....sure, but not for personal consumption nor until we get the bugs ironed out of this fuel operation. No need to worry about a new competitor. We're just a couple of shade tree types afraid that we haven't seen the worst of the fuel *crisis*. But come to think of it, maybe it'd be easier to drink the stuff and just forget the post-peak oil doom and gloom.

I see you're in Ellensburg. Any chance for a tour someday as I'm passing through on my way back and forth to Seattle?

But of course! The DSP has been received and it's the state permit that I'm waiting on now. Just call or write!

Thanks for the link. Rather than read 42 pages of this (which I will eventually), are there any TTB rules regarding the question of labeling Whiskey vs. Whisky here in the US?

No there are not. Most of the references to whisky in the CFRs use the word as it was spelt originally in British English usage (whisky). The link that you provided mentions this. What is your preference? As Mr Cowdery points out, the word is the same, but with two variants. By the way, is it Jeffry, or Jeffery? Jeffry/Jeffery came from Geoffery, as whisky/whiskey came from uisce!

Just another wordsmith in our midst, but happy to be one!

All the best,

Rusty

Hello All,

I'm a newbie to the hobby and interested in all aspects of distillation, but most specifically from the standpoint of the small craft distillery. I've nearly completed the construction of my first still, a simple reflux column that I built to teach myself the basics. So far I've learned that soldering stainless is impossible for me, and that copper is VERY expensive. I'm looking forward to learning more and perhaps working my way through the red tape that will allow me to distill legally. Anyway, hello to all, and feel free to drop me a line if you like.

C. Johnson

Ellensburg WA

Hi Chris, and all the best to you as you learn the craft. Please visit me in Ellensburg whenever you wish to talk shop.

Good luck,

Rusty

Hey Guys,

My name is Ryan, I am from the Great State of Alaska. My family and I are in the process of launching Latitude 60 North Distillers out of Kenai, AK. I am a total newb to distillation and am in the process of writing my business plan. Great to be part of the community and any/all help and advice is MUCH appreciated!

Cheers,

RW

A warm welcome, Ryan, from a Washington distiller! Often, this forum imparts some good advice, and feel free to write to anyone directly, off-forum.

All the best,

Rusty

A hearty welcome, Jeffry, from a fellow Washingtonian!

All the best,

Rusty

Member, Washington Craft Distillers

Hello all ~ my name is Jeffrey Shilling of Odyssey Spirits. We're excited to participate in the Washington craft distilling revolution via our plans to create a destination distillery close to Downtown Seattle.

Once up & running (forecasting early '09) our aim is to produce a bunch of brown spirits and a couple clear ones.

At present we're conducting real estate due diligence, meeting with state agencies and strategic partners and actively attracting company funding.

We look forward to supporting all who practice the art of Craft/Artisan Distilling!

*Member, Washington Distillers Guild

Dear Mr Classick,

If your condensor is efficient in design, than all you'll need is a trickle of tap water, even in the dog days of summer. Mine is 24" x 3", but has thirty 3/8" pathways, with each surrounded by a water bath. I can build one for you. It is pictured at www.DynamicAlambic.com under "DISTILLERY".

All the best,

Rusty

Howdy to all from another newbie. Been doing a ton of research on fuel ethanol and only now stumbled across this forum. I'm very pleased for the simple reason that you guys seem to have your act together. I guess actually being in business, trying to make a profit does that to ya. I'll be lurking around trying to pick up vital information and will post later with success or failure reports.

Location: NE Washington state, 60 miles from the nearest stoplight.

Welcome fellow Washingtonian! He's correct, get your application in. Don't even think about distilling without it. Your wait is guaranteed to be within 45 days. You can find the application at this address:

http://www.ttb.gov/forms/f511074.pdf

Where in Washington are you going to be producing, and might you be interested in making beverage alcohol?

All the best,

Rusty