ODW Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Hi, Is there any advice that the folks here can give to keep the nose on the gin? What I mean is that the nose seems to degrade overtime for the gin I am making. I use spruce tips and in the first few days the pine/citrusy characteristics are all there. give it a week and it all but disappears. The palate still has intense spruce flavors so I am not worried about that but the nose is just flat. I know a lot of this depends on the botanicals so I am asking a more general question. Has any of you run into the problem of your gin being flat on the nose but great on the palate. How did you solve it? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindred Spirits Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 What other botanicals do you use in your recipe? Most gins that suffer from the loss of flavor or smell over time do not have enough "fixative" or flavor binding botanicals like angelica and orris root. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODW Posted July 5, 2023 Author Share Posted July 5, 2023 Hi, I have juniper, angelica root, lemon peels, spruce tips, bay leaves and cardamom. the angelica root is there. is the proportion the issue? we have 2% angelica root. is this too low? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindred Spirits Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 2% in terms of the overall botanical bill? That might be a bit low considering it is the only fixative botanical. I typically have it around 4-5% and in conjunction with other botanicals that help bind flavors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODW Posted July 5, 2023 Author Share Posted July 5, 2023 yes, 2% of overall botanical bill. I will try upping the angelica and see how this works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindred Spirits Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Sounds like a plan, you might want to look into adding some coriander as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silk City Distillers Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 Consider oxidation/reaction of pinene as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Α-Pinene In the atmosphere α-pinene undergoes reactions with ozone, the hydroxyl radical or the NO3 radical,[9][full citation needed] leading to low-volatility species which partly condense on existing aerosols, thereby generating secondary organic aerosols. This has been shown in numerous laboratory experiments for the mono- and sesquiterpenes.[10][11] Products of α-pinene which have been identified explicitly are pinonaldehyde, norpinonaldehyde, pinic acid, pinonic acid and pinalic acid. Given that you indicate that the flavor profile is still (mostly) correct, it sounds more like you are seeing pinene react and form low-volatility compounds. Interesting that there is so much research on just how efficient this oxidation reaction is: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-21172-w Reduce exposure to air, reduce exposure to light, reduce splashing, pouring, pumping, mixing. Essentially, do everything to reduce exposure to air, mixing in a way that introduces air, reduce the time sitting in tanks (that are not purged with inert gasses like nitrogen), purge bottles with nitrogen, keep tanks and liquid cool to prevent evaporation, store bottles cool (only a temporary measure), etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silk City Distillers Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 Alternatively, consider vacuum distilling additional spruce tips, keeping only the first fraction (top note, highest volatility), and using that to increase the concentration of the most volatile part of the botanical (recognizing that you will eventually lose it, as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patent5 Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 We find that gin stored in plastic (HDPE) loses its freshness (the nose) much quicker than in in a stainless steel container. I'm not sure of the science on this but have talked to at least one other distiller who had the same issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silk City Distillers Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 Oh that’s easy, HDPE is oxygen permeable. Closure type and headspace is a big factor as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dramboozled Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 I'd try orris root. I find the flavor a bit more neutral than angelica so if you need to up the amount for fixative reasons there's a bit more room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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