Boiler Layout Help Please

[Absinthe Pete]

OK so were finally installing the boiler. Got the wiring and cut off switch installed last night.

The question I have is what the layout of lines for return condensate is like. I have diagrams in the boiler manual but wanted some real world verification.

The steam leaves the boiler and heads to the still > it enters the still > then exits the still > goes to the steam trap set at 15 PSI > (then it goes to a Pump??) > then back to the boiler.

Do you guys have a separate tank that adds tap water with condensate return water if it gets low?

[Scott @ Twenty2Vodka]

I self designed a lot of components of our setup, and built many myself, but this (the steam boiler) was one area I had no problem hiring a professional to install and connect properly. We do have a condensate pump, but i have no idea of the specs or function of that component specifically. Also, our boiler is hard plumed to the cold water source with a 3/4 inch copper pipe to draw water when required, I'm pretty sure this is a pretty important component and wouldn't want to ever risk a separate tank running out of crucial water resulting in your boiler running dry. That would be a disaster. Literally.

Good Luck,

-Scott

[Absinthe Pete]

Does the cold water go directly into the boiler? and then another inlet for the condensate return? If so how does the boiler know when there's enough water in the boiler?

[FrEwing]

Pete, My dad was in the heating busines in NYC years ago. We installed a hell of a lot of boilers. All boilers installed by a professional will have a low water sensor and an automatic feed. You couldn't get building approvals from local ordinances without these devices. As Scott recommended, do your self a big favor and have a pro install it.

[miller]

OK so were finally installing the boiler. Got the wiring and cut off switch installed last night.

The question I have is what the layout of lines for return condensate is like. I have diagrams in the boiler manual but wanted some real world verification.

The steam leaves the boiler and heads to the still > it enters the still > then exits the still > goes to the steam trap set at 15 PSI > (then it goes to a Pump??) > then back to the boiler.

Do you guys have a separate tank that adds tap water with condensate return water if it gets low?

You need to have some meaning of making up boiler feed water, you should also be feeding hot water back to the boiler the hotter the better ( capture heat from the boiler exhaust). You also need to pay very close attention to the water in the boiler pH , etc. to make the boiler and your steam pipes last.

[joe@cpd]

There are two main pipes. Outbound steam from the boiler. This is called the "Header". Inbound return water back to the boiler. This is called the "Return". On each appliance you plumb steam in and steam out. On each appliance steam out has a steam trap. The steam pressure will push that back to the return tank. If you have more than one appliance working off the same boiler after the last appliance you need to add a steam trap to the header which now changes from header to return. This now runs back by the other appliances to pick up the returns from the appliances and goes to the return tank. In the return tank you need a simple float valve to be sure your water level stays right because you lose a little water is the steam making process.

Consult a chemical supply for boiler treatment. I always had good luck with Caled. Just add a few ounces after blow down when you're re-filling the boiler with water.

[Brian]

OK so were finally installing the boiler. Got the wiring and cut off switch installed last night.

The question I have is what the layout of lines for return condensate is like. I have diagrams in the boiler manual but wanted some real world verification.

The steam leaves the boiler and heads to the still > it enters the still > then exits the still > goes to the steam trap set at 15 PSI > (then it goes to a Pump??) > then back to the boiler.

Do you guys have a separate tank that adds tap water with condensate return water if it gets low?

Easy-peasy

Take a look here at pull down the PDF....http://completewatersystems.com/brand/hoffman-specialty/literature/steam-system-manuals/ for basic systems.

Your can get a boiler feed pump out of Grainger. This is the collection point for condensed steam. You can add a float switch by extending your sight glass ports. This switch properly specified will run the pump to replenish the water consumed in your boiler...you need to set the run position for the switch to match the water height specified in the sight glass from your boiler installation manual. The larger Hoffman tanks have a float switch in them to provide a inlet for cold water to add "make up water". I don't remember if the little Hoffman system has a float valve for makup water...if you are an assiduous you can do the make up water manually.

Your LWCO MUST be verified or you may be running high pressure steam after all....then you won't be around and all that good mash will go to waste...can send you photos (nudge,nudge, wink,wink) on Monday.

Make sure you understand the tilt of the pipes per the Hoffman manual...not too tricky--water runs down hill except in a hurricane.......you are a Professional!

[Brian]

Easy-peasy

Take a look here at pull down the PDF....http://completewatersystems.com/brand/hoffman-specialty/literature/steam-system-manuals/ for basic systems.

Your can get a boiler feed pump out of Grainger. This is the collection point for condensed steam. You can add a float switch by extending your sight glass ports. This switch properly specified will run the pump to replenish the water consumed in your boiler...you need to set the run position for the switch to match the water height specified in the sight glass from your boiler installation manual. The larger Hoffman tanks have a float switch in them to provide a inlet for cold water to add "make up water". I don't remember if the little Hoffman system has a float valve for makup water...if you are an assiduous you can do the make up water manually.

Your LWCO MUST be verified or you may be running high pressure steam after all....then you won't be around and all that good mash will go to waste...can send you photos (nudge,nudge, wink,wink) on Monday.

Make sure you understand the tilt of the pipes per the Hoffman manual...not too tricky--water runs down hill except in a hurricane.......you are a Professional!

Honeywell has a better pressurtrol than the standard basic device supplied....it will allow you better pressure control with an easier way to set the cut in/cut out pressures....your boiler will have a pressure relief valve large enough to dump steam from the boiler and prevent a steam explosion. You should at least use softened water in your boiler....you need a blow down valve immediately below your float switch (see above) for replenishment so you can dump out the sludge that will accumulate. You can add a secondary pressuretrol that will cut off the boiler if you go over pressure....bigger boilers will require a secondary LWCO as well.

Hoffman has other documentation for steam traps and the like as well as basic system layouts to follow....look up so called "hartford loops" which can provide a mechanical method to prevent low water system failures....you can do this yourself, but it is not an area for innovation.

[Brian]

Easy-peasy

Take a look here at pull down the PDF....http://completewatersystems.com/brand/hoffman-specialty/literature/steam-system-manuals/ for basic systems.

Your can get a boiler feed pump out of Grainger. This is the collection point for condensed steam. You can add a float switch by extending your sight glass ports. This switch properly specified will run the pump to replenish the water consumed in your boiler...you need to set the run position for the switch to match the water height specified in the sight glass from your boiler installation manual. The larger Hoffman tanks have a float switch in them to provide a inlet for cold water to add "make up water". I don't remember if the little Hoffman system has a float valve for makup water...if you are an assiduous you can do the make up water manually.

Your LWCO MUST be verified or you may be running high pressure steam after all....then you won't be around and all that good mash will go to waste...can send you photos (nudge,nudge, wink,wink) on Monday.

Make sure you understand the tilt of the pipes per the Hoffman manual...not too tricky--water runs down hill except in a hurricane.......you are a Professional!

Honeywell has a better pressurtrol than the standard basic device supplied....it will allow you better pressure control with an easier way to set the cut in/cut out pressures....your boiler will have a pressure relief valve large enough to dump steam from the boiler and prevent a steam explosion. You should at least use softened water in your boiler....you need a blow down valve immediately below your float switch (see above) for replenishment so you can dump out the sludge that will accumulate. You can add a secondary pressuretrol that will cut off the boiler if you go over pressure....bigger boilers will require a secondary LWCO as well.

Hoffman has other documentation for steam traps and the like as well as basic system layouts to follow....look up so called "hartford loops" which can provide a mechanical method to prevent low water system failures....you can do this yourself, but it is not an area for innovation.

[Absinthe Pete]

Thanks for the help. I'll do some more research and let you guys know.

[ViolentBlue]

OK so were finally installing the boiler. Got the wiring and cut off switch installed last night.

The question I have is what the layout of lines for return condensate is like. I have diagrams in the boiler manual but wanted some real world verification.

The steam leaves the boiler and heads to the still > it enters the still > then exits the still > goes to the steam trap set at 15 PSI > (then it goes to a Pump??) > then back to the boiler.

Do you guys have a separate tank that adds tap water with condensate return water if it gets low?

if you can get a downhill run from the trap back to the boiler then you can use gravity otherwise you need to pump the condensate back.

you can actually purchase steam driven condensate pumps. so its a self sustaining system.

[Denver Distiller]

Respectfully, you're always going to need a pump to get the condensate back into the boiler. You've a boiler sitting at 14 psig or so, and condensate at close to 0 psig, making it impossible to get the condensate into the boiler with a few inches of head.

And all of this is for naught if you don't check your State and Local regulations, as they frequently conflict with one another. I'd be surprised if you could legally do the work yourself.

[Brian]

Here is a code book reference:

http://www2.iccsafe....e%20Vessels.pdf

"Denver Distiller" has a point about checking with your local code enforcement. If you own the building you may be exempt from a "licensed" installation. If you lease the building you probably would need the owner's permission and they would likely want a PE's stamp on your install, IF you are allowed to perform the work by the owner.

As a DSP you can't be in a building used as a residence.

Most of the references in the above code PDF refer to maintaining an installation in accordance with the manufacturers instructions which include all clearances, providing for combustion air, fire safety cut off switch (electric) on a dedicated circuit.

I did my own installation...we own the property...we are zoned agricultural.

I did have the propane folks do the gas work....so as cavalier as I sound, as Clint would say "you got to know your limits"

[Brian]

I found another nice synopsis for NEW YORK STATE....rules and regulations of your location may differ....but it does give you the lay of the land.

We are on a farm and exempt per the attached PDF based on the USA National Board of Boiler......

But hey...why not have an inspector come an take a look....you might not burn the place down!!

http://www.labor.sta...lers/boiler.pdf

We routinely ask our insurance companie's "loss prevention" person to come in and take a look.

[Absinthe Pete]

I got it figured out, thanks. Just for everyone's own info, mainly those that read this in the future and need the info.

Boiler hooks up to still > exit on still goes to a steam trap > steam trap leads to a condensate return tank > tank has a float valve to allow cold water to fill up the tank if the tank is empty > tank also has a pump to pump the water back to the boiler to refill it > the boiler itself has a LWCO a float connected to a switch that wires to the pump on the condensate return tank.