Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by Foreshot

  1. Foreshot

    Sourcing bacterial strains for rum fermentations

    So from the reading I've done there are my thoughts on this: They can and do, but the equilibrium of the mixture is based on the volume and polarity of alcohols and carboxylic acids involved. The more polar molecules will reform esters more often. So what esters go in aren't necessarily the ones that come out. They are constantly being destroyed and reformed. The long term relative equilibrium would favor esters that form from the more polar molecules with fewer of the ones that are less polar. You can see this in action by noticing the drift in aroma and flavors in spirits even though they are in a not reactive environment like glass or stainless steel. It's also relative to the ABV of the spirit. Lower ABVs are going to destroy more esters with less reforming. Higher ABVs destroy fewer esters (less water for hydrolysis) and favors more ester formation. And the thing you mention a lot is the acidity of the mixture, and the more Fisher catalyzed esterification will happen. A little odd video of this is here - pay attention to 6:50 and 9:40, it applies to us: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVL24HAesnc
  2. Foreshot

    Sourcing bacterial strains for rum fermentations

    Seriously - my sanitation protocol is non-existent anymore. I can't remember the last time I really used starsan. I would say bacterial contributions are mostly beneficial to flavors though negative for yield. Milk the Funk has an AMAZING wiki. Properly annotated, written by PhDs, tons of research and explanation. http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Table_of_Contents http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Alternative_Bacteria_Sources To his point see this chart - scroll down to esters: http://masterclass.boxwhisky.se/en/the-middle-cut This is the part that sucks. What I get right off the still are the absolute best flavors. Even after a few days the flavor changes and settles down. That's another thing that people don't necessarily understand - time in a barrel or bottle isn't static for esters or other chemical compounds.Barreling isn't just for oaking. There's a lot of things that happen in a barrel that we don't talk about. Chemical reactions still happen, only slower. Water can easily reverse esterifacation. And now people are experimenting with lower ABV barrel entry so it's a recipe for removing esters. I don't disagree with the lower entry ABV, but understand why you're doing it what will happen due to it matters. I think this is the hardest part for new craft people. No blending stocks. Cash is king and everything gets bottled and sold. The model of DOK and blending stocks requires time and planning which not a lot of craft people can do. It is the right model, just not super practical. People need to laydown some breather barrels for blending and that's not something they may be able to afford.
  3. Foreshot

    Sourcing bacterial strains for rum fermentations

    When you're looking at natural biological activity in yeast/bacteria there's a ton of secondary process that can effect the outcome based on conditions. I think there's a lot of people that believe they can laser focus on achieving an outcome, over production of a specific by product like fatty acids, without understanding the conditions that it requires. How you ferment, what you ferment, the conditions of the ferment (open/closed, tall/short vessel, etc) will effect each strain of yeast/bacteria differently. So what works in an open short wooden fermenter in the summer in Jamaica might not work the same as in Chicago in winter in a closed SS tall tank. I agree it's a good starting point to use what they use as a starting point - but to SCD's point - it's probably best to experiment to see what work for you. You can also manipulate yeast to produce acetic, lactic, propionic, and other acids, but in lower quantities. It's fully good to use the try it and see method to get started, but it doesn't help with repeatability. You really need to account for as many factors as you can to understand which conditions are best for the outcome you want. Timing of the additions, temps, pH, ferment size, ambient temp/time of year, anything. The Birectifier is something that can help with this to check for non-quantitative olfactory effects. I think mixed culture fermentations is some of the best stuff going on today in the industry. It's taking something that happened in the old days and recreating it after we took it out of the process for sanitary/efficiency reasons. I'm happy to see people working on it!
  4. Foreshot

    Trub from running beer

    That's what happened at Wigle. It caused their still to explode.
  5. Foreshot

    Discussion on Sale of Distillery

    As a rough estimate of what you can get for your distillery: - Cash Flow: 3-5x times earnings adding your salary back in. 3x if you don't have high free cash flow to costs, 5x if you have very high free cash flow to costs. It is very hard to go above 5x unless you are really profitable and growing well. If you are the main person making everything and you don't have a good backup then take 1-2x back. - The cost of your total FFE at discount sale price - The cost of your realty if you own the building. If you own the building you're probably looking at the the cost of realty + the greater of Cash Flow or FFE. The more someone has to do to keep the business running then the less you'll get for it. If someone can own the business with very little activity required then the more you'll get for it. And the smaller you are the harder it is to sell the business vs sell the equipment. I would look at your goals in life to evaluate the sell vs continue question. If you can hire or rely on someone to run the business with you calling the shots I think you can do it. If you can't trust someone to run the business without you being involved in everything then it might be better to sell. If you want to continue on and you don't have a good #2, find one. It's not easy but hopefully you will eventually find someone with the passion and ability to do it. If you're relatively close to retirement maybe bring someone in to eventually take over the business a little at time - say over 5-10 years. Part of their salary can be a small incremental increases in ownership (1-2%) in lieu of some salary then a purchase of the most/rest of the business at the end of the term. If a person owns 20% of a business that is healthy it shouldn't be too hard to finance the rest. There's tons of ways to do it. Those are just a few ideas. Good luck!
  6. Foreshot

    I caught a "Jellyfish"

    I ran a batch of single malt a while ago. It's low wines around 35% abv. I re-discovered it a few days ago. I am going to get the jellyfish analyzed. Once I get the results I'll post up. We've talked about what it might be - fatty acids, esters, saponification. Any other ideas? Should we start a betting pool?
  7. Foreshot

    Distillate Off-Flavor

    Like Kelbor says dump the Campden tablets. The sulfur is causing the off flavors. It's also harmful to your yeast. Sanitation isn't as important in the distilling world as you're running it before an infection can cause much trouble. If you keep stuff clean that's all that is needed. This is the hardest point that ex-brewers/vintners have trouble wrapping their heads around. If you're only worried about chlorine/chloramine read this: https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Water_Conditioning
  8. I'm reading "Fundamentals of Distillery Practice" (aka Seagrams Manuals) and hit a part where it discussed flavor in corn. It stated white corn had the lowest flavor and yellow corn more due to carotene. I'm wondering if that's a reason why Bloody butcher corn is becoming en vogue these days. Has anyone here done any research on color and flavor? I would be interested if you've made multiple mashes with the different corn available to check flavors and if you noticed color affecting flavor. Research paper with carotene levels vs color: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261151295_Color_of_Corn_Grains_and_Carotenoid_Profile_of_Importance_for_Human_Health
  9. Foreshot

    Is this useful or overkill?

    http://www.myronl.com/products/ultrameter_II.htm I have the opportunity to get this used at a very low price. Is this overkill? I was planning on getting a pH meter. I can see the Chlorine and TDS readings being useful, but I don't know if it's worth buying this unit over a dedicated pH meter. I think the thing for me is maintenance - I'm not sure how much that would cost. For a dedicate pH meter I know I will need pH storage solution and testing solutions (4 & 7). Anyone have any experience with this or a device like it? What kind of maintenance am I looking at over a pH meter?
  10. Read this: https://twitter.com/KingsCoWhiskey/status/1070453422153854976 We need to emphasis consumers have no understanding or expectation of what size a barrel is. It's not understood the way that the age statement is. We don't want to be forced to have "barrel" statements. If we do expect the big players to have advertising that emphasizes the bigger the barrel the better, and really dig at craft producers using smaller than ASB barrels. As craft producers we don't have the lobbyist the big guys do. We have numbers though, so we need to use them to let the TTB know we don't want to be forced to use a specific barrel size or have barrel statements.
  11. I will give them the benefit of a doubt here (as I tend to be overly optimistic anyhow). They themselves haven't enforced that a barrel is anything to this point yet other than wood. We've been able to label products as bourbon/whiskey/etc in much smaller than 50g casks. I think & hope they are asking the industry as a whole to help answer this question - what defines the characteristics of a barrel. I'm not totally blind that the larger industry players and related industries would like to establish that the barrels need to be new/charred/ASB size to reduce competition. So it behooves us to get our voices, and our industry organizations, heard.
  12. Foreshot

    ELI5: The Birectifier

    I was hoping you would volunteer. I think you're best candidate for this. Stephen - please take him up on this offer.
  13. Foreshot

    ELI5: The Birectifier

    The short of it: The biggest thing that the BiR does vs CGMS is that the BiR gives you a magnified experience of your spirit and not just an ingredients list. I've been following Stephen's work for several years, much like I assume other have also. Based on that this is my take on this without owning it: The BiR magnifies the organoleptic qualities of your spirit. I think that if you produce the same spirit repeatedly you could use it to notice drift. You could also use it to magnify differences if you were to change variables in your protocols - raw materials (vendors?), yeast, fermentation time/temp, cuts. I think to best realize what the BiR can do is for you to work with a craft distiller to setup experiments where you do minor changes to variables and record the results. Right now it's too amorphous and too many people don't understand what it can do since no one other than you has done anything with it significantly since Arroyo. First up - brew the same wash with 5-6 different yeasts and everything else stays the same. Can you tell the difference in the final spirit? Can you tell the difference in the BiR output? Is it easier to tell the difference?
  14. Foreshot

    How to make cuts in moonshine distillation

    Hi Nicola, Try these links: https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Guide https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Cuts For the jars have 20-30% of the original volume on hand.
  15. Foreshot

    Ultimate New Distillery Guide

    Man I've been wondering what you've been up to, now I know. Kudos! I'll be reading it in greater detail over the next couple days and I'll give you some feedback.
  16. Foreshot

    Sediment in finished bottles

    yeah, that's probably why I had to google every third word in your reply. Keep that coming! We need more science to help us make better products. You're probably picking up contaminants from both the water and the concrete (including salts). Carbon won't fix all of it.
  17. Foreshot

    reusing feints

    day or two.
  18. Foreshot

    To filter or not to filter...

    The more I think about it I think phase separation might be your best bet for the least effect on the flavor profile. I would suggest a couple tests on a small still. Phase separation takes a few days to work properly. Try low wines without separation, 30% ABV and 17% ABV. I posted this link in another thread but I am also including it here for convenience: https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19169 When I dilute my low wines: 1. Flavor is diminished a bit. 17% ABV low wines would worry me. I've never gone that low. 2. The final product ABV may be lower than normal, especially with 17% ABV. Probably not a concern with a column, but it is for a pot still. It's definitely not a perfect solution but it may be the least worst option.
  19. Foreshot

    Best way to neutralize a barrel

    Thinking of some ideas to for aging. I want to age out some product without really oaking it or having previous product change the flavor. Not solera but similar. So how can I reduce barrel contribution with somewhat used but not really old barrels? I would love to find 10-20 year old 10-30 gallons barrels but I doubt I would be able too. Most probably will be 2-4 years old and still have a fair amount of flavor to influence the product which I don't want. And @Huffy2k, I'm not doing this to the barrels I bought off you. :)
  20. Foreshot

    reusing feints

    It's also called phase separation. We were just talking about it in another thread. If you search the forum you'll see details. It's exactly like Adam said. It will help remove the really late tails. Full info here: https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19169&start=12
  21. Foreshot

    Checking if maceration is complete

    I don't believe that you're going to find that there is an objective and quantitative way to do want you want. Taste is the only way to go to get a consistent product. That being said you would probably have to do a multi factor analysis to get close: SG, pH, TDS, and any other test you think you can throw at it. It still might not provide anything useful. You may be able to do better if you did each botanical separate though I don't know if even that would do it.
  22. Foreshot

    Best way to neutralize a barrel

    Thanks guys. Keep'em coming if you have anymore. I like the steam one - I will try that.
  23. Foreshot

    Help! Artemisia pontica..

    Another member graciously reached out to me and I accepted their offer. Thanks though.
  24. Foreshot

    Help! Artemisia pontica..

    if you're willing to sell some rhizomes I'll buy.
  25. Foreshot

    To filter or not to filter...

    Bottom up. The oils/fatty acids/esters that are causing this stay at the top. Draw from the bottom and leave the top part. You should see a haze or oil slick on the top. Stay away from it. It may still cause the a flavor/aroma change but it won't be as bad as chill filtering. If you search the forums for it there's a couple threads on it. The one I listed below describes the process. http://adiforums.com/topic/6444-phase-separation-of-low-wines/