Thatch

I'm guessing you meant geoff@focusfirstadvisors.com

Sounds like the mailings I get from hearing aid companies. We're pretty sold on O-H-I-O as well and I'm always looking for a better way to skin the cat. So, I'll certainly listen to what you have to say. You might want to post your email address or if you want people to message you on the forum you might want to say so in your posting. Cheers

If you will store more than 240 gallons, then the answer is yes, you must be H occupancy. There are ways to have up to 960 gallons in 4 separate control areas and still remain F-1 but that's another topic entirely. Talk to your architect about making the garage you mention comply with H-3, the code review I posted should be helpful to him.

They don't unless the AHJ allows them to do so. This would violate building code. As you will read many times in this forum, it is up to the AHJ. In your case he is already talking about H-3. Even if he were to unknowingly allow you to violate the building code you might be in trouble when it comes to time to get insurance. Companies that insure distilleries know the building and fire code and may be more strict than the AHJ

With no sprinklers you would be limited to 120 gallons in your DSP in excess of 16% ABV. The exception to this is you could have as much as you want in bottles less than 1.3 gallons so long as what is in the bottles does not exceed 100 proof. This would be for an F-1 occupancy. You could not be an H occupancy without sprinklers. c. The quantities of alcoholic beverages in retail and wholesale sales occupancies shall not be limited provided the liquids are packaged in individual containers not exceeding 1.3 gallons. In retail and wholesale sales occupancies, the quantities of medicines, foodstuffs or consumer products, and cosmetics containing not more than 50 percent by volume of water-miscible liquids with the remainder of the solutions not being flammable, shall not be limited, provided that such materials are packaged in individual containers not exceeding 1.3 gallons. This is a code review that I previously posted to go from F-1 to H-3 This is a code review for a classification change from F-1 to H-3. Although this references mostly Ohio Building Code the numbers should correspond directly to IBC and your local code. Preliminary Code Review to Convert Existing Malt House F-1/S-1 to H-3 Existing Building Use Group H-3 - Distillery and spirit storage Table 307.1(1) – Spirits at 50% alcohol or less is a 1C flammable liquid and requires an H-3 use group when the MAQ of 120 gal x 2 = 240 gal is in use or storage is exceeded. OBC 414 – Hazardous Materials 414.1.3 – Report required to be submitted to AHJ describing max quantities and types of hazardous materials to be in-use or stored 414.3 Ventilation – Mechanical ventilation required. 1 CFM/SF continuous in areas or spaces where flammable vapors may be emitted due to processing, use, handling or storage. Make up air likely required. 414.5.1 – Explosion control is not required per OBC Table 414.5.1 – 1C not listed. 414.5.2 – Standby power may be required for the continuous ventilation. This would be exempt if the 1C flammable liquid is stored in containers not exceeding 6.5 gal. IFC 2704.2.1 – Spill control needed if storage is in individual vessels of more than 55 gals. The barrels are smaller than 55 gal so no spill control needed. IFC 2704.2.2 – Secondary containment is not required. OBC – 415 Detailed requirements for H Groups 415.3 – Fire Alarm monitoring of sprinkler riser. Existing, complies. 415.4 – Automatic sprinkler. Design should be review for the change of use/occupancy. 415.5.1 – Emergency alarm. Local manual alarm outside of egress from a storage area is required. 415.6 – Greater than 25% of the perimeter wall is exterior wall, Complies. 415.6.1 – Group H minimum fire separation distance. OBC Table 602 – Exterior wall fire-resistance rating based on fire separation distance. 26’ separation distance to the east and west property lines requires a 1 HR exterior wall rating for an H use group. OBC CH 5 – Building area. Existing building area is 13,246SF is less than Table 506.2 14,000SF for a IIB, H-3. Complies without open perimeter or sprinkler area increases. OBC 706 – Fire walls. A 2 HR rated fire wall exists between the 5B (combustible) B-use office and the 2B (non-combustible) F-1/S-1 to separate building construction type. Table 706.4 requires a 3 HR rated fire wall for an H-3 use group.

You might be able to be F-1. Does the property have sprinklers? How big will your still be? How many gallons of spirits do you intend to store? You will find reference to MAQ or maximum allowable quantity many places on this forum if you use those as search terms. Barrels do count toward your MAQ.

You've misunderstood, you can remain F-1 by adding sprinklers and this will take you to 240 gallons. If you search on the term "MAQ" on this forum you will find significant discussion. H-3 will require much more in your build out but than you will have no MAQ.

Yes, low wines in excess of 16% ABV are included in your MAQ. This is an excerpt from a Dalkita article that addresses this issue. Ethanol, over about 16% ABV is classified as a 1B or 1c Flammable liquid. On the MAQ chart, the amount in storage is 120 gallons, and in use (closed systems) is 120 gallons. You can not add storage and in use together. For instance, you could have 100 gallons in storage, and 20 gallons in use and you’d be at the max. Ultimately, if you exceed this volume of >16% ABV, then the room or building shall be classified as an H-3 (Hazardous) occupancy.

If you search on the letters AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdication) on this forum you will find a significant amount of discussion on what they might want to talk about. The other guy that you would want in a second meeting if the planning commission and the building inspector give you positive vibes is the Fire Marshall.

Back to the OP's post, spill control, drainage, and containment all refer to the International Fire Code where barrels are exempt. So, if you are storing in barrels, you should not be mandated to have any of the listed safeguards. But, as it has been said many times before, this is up to your AHJ. If he thinks you need them, you need them. With regards to your question on a list of site requirements, this code review document should be helpful, This is a code review for a classification change from F-1 to H-3. Although this references mostly Ohio Building Code the numbers should correspond directly to IBC and your local code. Preliminary Code Review to Convert Existing Malt House F-1/S-1 to H-3 Existing Building Use Group H-3 - Distillery and spirit storage Table 307.1(1) – Spirits at 50% alcohol or less is a 1C flammable liquid and requires an H-3 use group when the MAQ of 120 gal x 2 = 240 gal is in use or storage is exceeded. OBC 414 – Hazardous Materials 414.1.3 – Report required to be submitted to AHJ describing max quantities and types of hazardous materials to be in-use or stored 414.3 Ventilation – Mechanical ventilation required. 1 CFM/SF continuous in areas or spaces where flammable vapors may be emitted due to processing, use, handling or storage. Make up air likely required. 414.5.1 – Explosion control is not required per OBC Table 414.5.1 – 1C not listed. 414.5.2 – Standby power may be required for the continuous ventilation. This would be exempt if the 1C flammable liquid is stored in containers not exceeding 6.5 gal. IFC 2704.2.1 – Spill control needed if storage is in individual vessels of more than 55 gals. The barrels are smaller than 55 gal so no spill control needed. IFC 2704.2.2 – Secondary containment is not required. OBC – 415 Detailed requirements for H Groups 415.3 – Fire Alarm monitoring of sprinkler riser. Existing, complies. 415.4 – Automatic sprinkler. Design should be review for the change of use/occupancy. 415.5.1 – Emergency alarm. Local manual alarm outside of egress from a storage area is required. 415.6 – Greater than 25% of the perimeter wall is exterior wall, Complies. 415.6.1 – Group H minimum fire separation distance. OBC Table 602 – Exterior wall fire-resistance rating based on fire separation distance. 26’ separation distance to the east and west property lines requires a 1 HR exterior wall rating for an H use group. OBC CH 5 – Building area. Existing building area is 13,246SF is less than Table 506.2 14,000SF for a IIB, H-3. Complies without open perimeter or sprinkler area increases. OBC 706 – Fire walls. A 2 HR rated fire wall exists between the 5B (combustible) B-use office and the 2B (non-combustible) F-1/S-1 to separate building construction type. Table 706.4 requires a 3 HR rated fire wall for an H-3 use group.

Agree, the code says: c. The quantities of alcoholic beverages in retail and wholesale sales occupancies shall not be limited provided the liquids are packaged in individual containers not exceeding 1.3 gallons. In retail and wholesale sales occupancies, the quantities of medicines, foodstuffs or consumer products, and cosmetics containing not more than 50 percent by volume of water-miscible liquids with the remainder of the solutions not being flammable, shall not be limited, provided that such materials are packaged in individual containers not exceeding 1.3 gallons.

Respectfully disagree - Spirits in a barrel are included in the MAQ per zone. In other words, if you are F-1 the most you can have is 960 gallons MAXIMUM not in bottles. The 960 comes from 4 x 240 (4 control areas sprinkled - your distillery and 3 others). There may be no maximums in the fire code but there are in the building code. If you are H-3, there is no MAQ.

The only one who can tell you what you need is the AHJ (authority having jurisdication) Once you present to the building inspector and/or fire inspector what you intend to do, they will tell you what you need to meet code. This is neither a TTB nor State requirement, this has to do with building codes and fire codes and the AHJ's interpretation.

We don't malt corn, only barley but Sugar Creek in Indiana malts corn. Christmas has come early today! Got 3 of the 4 different corn we will be malting this winter. Bloody butcher, Alan Bishop’s Amanda Palmer, and Oaxacan Green all grown by Robert McDonald! Just waiting on white corn now! First batch going in the steep tomorrow! #craftmalt #craftbeer #craftmalt #craftwhiskey #sugarcreeklimitedreleasemalts #maltedcorn #heirloomcorn @ Sugar Creek Malt Co.

Thanks to everyone who replied. Apparently Ohio is a bit unique. Dave Dunbar was kind enough to research the issue and this is his answer. General Accepted Accounting Principals (GAAP) does not dictate the rules for transactions. The state commercial code (UCC) does that. The transaction is the given; the accountant applies GAAP rules to the given transaction. There is no standard model for distribution systems. Some states are open states; some states are control states. There is no standard model for control state regulation. Not all states are three-tier states. Ohio is not a three-tier state for spirits. Here is what I find on the NABCA website, which usually does a good job of explaining the distribution systems (the bullet list is my creation. It forces me to read the elements): In 1983, Ohio completed a conversion from state-run warehouses and state-owned stock system to a bailment system. From 1991-1996, it converted all state stores to private businesses called Contract Liquor Agencies. In Fiscal Year 2013, JobsOhio Beverage System (JOBS) purchased from the state an exclusive franchise for the sale and distribution of spirituous liquor throughout Ohio. JOBS owns the spirituous liquor product (intoxicating liquor containing more than 21 percent ABV) in Ohio for retail and wholesale sales. The division [state] manages wholesale and retail operations for the sale of spirituous liquor in Ohio. The division selects and prices products, and JOBS supplies the product to Agencies for sale on consignment. Agencies are private businesses which own and operate retail outlets selling other goods and services to the public, such as beer, wine and low proof mixed beverages. I read this to say that under a franchise agreement with JOBS, JOBS has a monopoly on the sale and distribution of of spirits in Ohio. As the franchisor, the state selects which products JOBS distribute and sets the price. As described, JOBS functions as a distribution agent. The NABCA description says that JOBS owns the product that JOBS distributes it, but it also says that the product is in bailment, i.e., JOBS has a fiduciary responsibility for the product, but the supplier still owns it until JOBS sells it to private business which operate , under contract with the state, as retail liquor agencies. NABCA says that JOBS sells to the agencies on consignment. Bailment and consignment muddy waters. Who has title, etc., is going to be a matter of the commercial code, which doesn't like to concern itself with title, focusing instead on rights and obligations. I think that the accounting system should take the same approach. It appears that to accommodate tasting, etc, by distillers who are residents of the State of Ohio, and still comport with the terms of the JOBS franchise, the state wrote rules that allow the distillers to acquire product from JOBS for tasting. Under those rules, payment will become due as set forth in the rules. Since JOBS is the seller, under the franchise agreement, it must have a purchase agreement with the distiller for goods the distiller delivers to it.. Since JOBs is the seller under the franchise agreement, it must have a sales agreement with the distiller when it delivers the goods JOBS delivers to the distiller. The agreements set the terms of payment. Assuming you are using an accrual system, I think that the accounts receivable and payable entries to your financial accounts should be made at the time the agreement obligate the parties to pay. Since you appear to create two agreement, one to sell to JOBS and one to purchase from JOBS, the accounts receivable will reflect the sales to JOBS and the accounts payable will reflect the purchase from jobs.

Thanks Dave, That's what my accountant thinks as well but until the State says they own it he is reluctant to post the transaction as a sale. The concept of the State buying the product and then selling it back to us for resale is foreign to accountants and he is trying to understand it completely. It seems that we have to record sales twice on each bottle, once to the State and then once to the consumer with profit being posted for each transaction. This is the part that seems to be unique to 3 tier.

Thanks for the response. This is a 3 Tier question and whether or not they own the spirits when it moves to our tasting room. They pay us in advance and when we sell product they deduct payment from our account when we sell the product to a consumer who has visited us.

We are in Ohio which is a 3 tier State. At this point we are only selling through our tasting room and in order to do so we must first sell the spirits to the State of Ohio and then to a consumer. We must take the spirits that we sell to the consumer from the stock provided by the State. The question is: When is it revenue, when you sell it to the state or when you ultimately sell it? If the state pays you 50% up front (just using 50% as an example), is that revenue since you haven’t really sold it yet, or is it some sort of deposit. Cheers!

From a previous post I made. This link does a pretty good job of explaining the codes that affect distilleries. http://ferar.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/pub_Distiller_Winter2018.pdf

The change that we had to make to our label was the term BOTTLED AT along with ALC/VOL. They basically give you a pass on the true proof and allow you to enter the proof prior to the infusion of the fruit. In our case we are bottling at 120 proof and then adding the fruit to the jar.

Check out this thread, there are a lot of good ideas. http://adiforums.com/topic/10896-vapor-detection-alarm-exhaust-fan-control/

Worked for me. Go to their FB page and click on photos

I'm not generally impressed when I visit distilleries but low and behold what I found in Ohio farm country East of Cleveland. Although the inventor was not present, I believe these are back to back continuous column vacuum stills. Both seem to have infusion abilities. His nephew told me that the inventor built his first still at age 12. There are a couple of additional photos on their FB page. I have no additional information. https://www.facebook.com/SevenBrothersDistillingCo/

@JNorris Thanks for the reply. We got our formula approved today but there are things that needs to be on the label that were not anticipated. Once that's approved I will add more so that the next person (notice my gender neutrality) going down this path will have a better road map. Read closely what @JNorris posted. There are many bad examples currently in use.

We have developed a fruit infused whiskey. We are adding the fruit to a quart jar after distillation. Now that we have something that we would like to sell I have come up with a problem. Is it legal? I have search the forum for hours and found several posts that mention this technique but it is only a mention. When I search the BAM this does not seem to be allowed. Yet, I have seen similar products on the shelf in liquor stores with fruit sitting on the bottom of a quart jar. We will not be adding any sugar and we intend to use somewhere around 120 proof in the products. Any help or comments are greatly appreciated.