MG Thermal Consulting

Good Luck!

I'm at your service if you need information on cooling systems/ energy-utility savings strategies.

Hopefully the legislative issues wind up in the distillers favor!

Regards,

Mike

I remember selling compressors for Surge Bulk Milk Tanks out of Chicago.

They were a national company (I don't know if they're still around) and had a large volume of business and local (to the farms) service people, so I would check that out in an area where the dairies are.

There are others, but my brain is in lock down.

Good Luck.

Hey Tony!

I think I have talked to more than a few with plans to start up somewhat near you, I assume everyone has a bug!

Seriously tho, I you have any cooling questions, give me a jingle of shoot me an email. I have pictures of the equipment used on distillery being installed at present- chiller, dry circuit glycol cooler (winter cooler) and mash heat exchanger.

If you're interested, I can email you the schematic on how the engineer put it all together for the distillery.

Good luck!

Mike Gronski

770-995-4066

You must have a lot of space!! Sometimes space is a real problem and new distilleries believe that reservoirs are unnessesary until they get the shock that they can't crash cool or realize just how much water is going down the drain.

The distiller has to be pretty savvy to think through and execute a utility (water and power) saving program to the extent you have.

I figure a small 4 ton coaxial glycol to water heat exchanger would cost another $775.00

Mike

Base on what usage you have there, your continuous load is about 42,000 Btu/hr (3.5 ton chiller). I have a used 3 ton (460/3/60) but can get you a new one shipped in two weeks or depending where you are located, a drycooler will get you most or all of the way there with a heat exchanger loop and tank. The 5 to 10 ton drycooler I use will cost you $2,500 or a 4 ton chiller another $7,750. Now if you can pipe the drycooler with a heat exchanger on the exit of the still condenser, that will work on the highest temp of the condenser water which would then go to a poly reservoir tank from where I have a 2 ton chiller to work on the water tank to get it to 50F. I have two used 2 ton chillers, 230/1/60, both priced at $5,000. Chiller and drycooler have their own circulator pumps. You would still need to buy the in-line glycol to condenser water exchanger.

A couple ways to skin the cat.

The drycooler has 1 HP pump and 1/2 HP fan motor and the 2 HP chiller also has 1/2 HP fan motor, 1 HP pump besides the 2 HP refrigerant compressor, max HP would be 5 HP and minimum 2.5 HP (both pumps need to run). You can do the math for your run hours KWh vs the 1,000 gal/day cost plus sewer.

Normally the closed loop payback is less than two years, but most of the time less than a year.

Ok, gotcha, I figured you had to have some kind of a cold glycol loop in there somewhere.

I think it's a function of the batch vs linear cooling profile of the chiller. Curious, what size chiller do you have?

What spread is your isolation exchanger sized for (difference between output water and the input cold glycol)? I try to size mine for 5 degrees, that way I don't pay as much for KW on the chiller vs a little more expensive exchanger.

Good way to save Btu's on the heat recovery.

Up North, I try to extend it as much as I can by the drycooler which can get most of the cooling when you are below freezing and if you're not doing mash cooling, the cold water tank can be much smaller, the mash cooling being the gorilla behind the still that wants to grab ya.

If I can, I try to put the chiller indoors (or use a split system with refrigeration condenser outside) so I can eliminate the glycol except where I have a drycooler. With casters on the chiller, you can move the chiller outdoors and the discharge air doesn't heat up the process area- real convenient for small units.

Nick,

I follow what you are doing on the heat reclaim side, but I don't follow you how this can reduce the cooling unless your cold water reservoir is inside a blast cooler.

You can reduce the utility, I agree, on the heat side but your cold condenser water has to come from somewhere, so the refrigeration chiller replaces the city water.

John,

Cooling towers can only cool water to about 85F in the summer because the cooling is based on wet bulb, which is probably around 76F where you are. the cooling tower also uses about 2-5% of the water sprayed over the fill, so you still have a utility bill for that along with filtration of the water out of the tower, which is why I recommend dry coolers integrated to a chiller (or city water loop for the summer)- you already have the closed loop (glycol/water mix) that is pumped through the heat exchanger to make your cooling. Either method you will need summer booster cooling, but the dry circuit is cleaner and you won't have to worry about winter freeze on the cooling tower.

I can send you a schematic of a distillery with chiller, dry circuit cooler (for winter-it's up North)which provide the cooling for the indoor reservoir which in turn feeds the condenser and mash exchanger. The chiller was going to be indoors too, but space was not available. I provided the cooling equipment and the use of the dry cooler will cut the chiller use to near zero all winter. Email me and I can send you over the schematic with pictures of the cooling equipment.

Mike Gronski

770-995-4066

MG any specific products you would suggest?

Paratherm Heat Transfer Products has a variety, including oil and glycols.

There are heat transfer oils specifically made for high temp use. High temp oils are common for temp controllers in plastics manufacture to heat up molds to temperature before processing.

What certification are they asking for? For electrical, NRTL or UL? ASME for pressure or mechanical? Latter normally applies only for above 15 psi. Kothe has sold fair number of stills in USA, so they should be able to tell you what they have been able to provide in the past. NYS? What safety requirements does the state have?

There are local codes for NYC like MEA for instance that make construction a nightmare for owners.

You will have to find out what code they are referring to and see if it can be "field certified". This of course means extra $$$.

Good luck.

Ryan, Good Luck!. I have a good friend and associate that is a material handling and automation expert that lives in Wilmington. PM me if you need help in that area. Also, give me a shout if you are looking into closed loop chilled water systems & mash exchangers. Great success as well!

I can help with chilled water systems, if you need it. some typical pics on my website, www.mgthermalconsulting.com. Regards, Mike

...I've never seen it (Galv)on any boiler when I lived in Buffalo, just my 2 cents.

Mike

Like anything else, I would suggest seeing some of the stills in use, nothing like seeing them in action.

That being said, I have specified Jesse's heat exchanger for my water chiller systems for the mash cooling and it matches up very well to my systems. Jesse works very closely with his clients to ensure a well performing operation.

Good luck to you!

Brandon, I guess it depends on just how hard the water is and if the water treatment you use doesn't keep it clean.

I know Jesse over at Trident Stills has been keeping really busy as well!

I just shipped equipment to VT, and the engineering firm also is licensed in NH, if you want his name.

Hi Mike, my distillery is outside your territory but I am interested to know if you use the heat from the hot side of your chillers. I see so many places where the heat could be used, not just in distilleries.

Also Pete, I am developing a direct air cooled mash cooler that air will be able to be reclaimed indoors if desired.

Mike can you call me? I'm interested in talking to you further about one of these. I am in Columbus Ohio. Thanks Dave 6143571896

Will do, Dave.

Hi Mike, my distillery is outside your territory but I am interested to know if you use the heat from the hot side of your chillers. I see so many places where the heat could be used, not just in distilleries.

Pete, the schematic would work out in the indoor water loop where you could put a fan coil in series with the outlet of the mash exchanger where the water is warmest. You could reclaim the heat in another way to preheat water for whatever use. Since the crash cool is the only place you have high quality heat, unfortunately it is of short duration.

This is a nominal 5 ton cooler, piped in parallel with a 10 ton chiller up in VT. Based on the cold weather there, the 5 ton cooler will supply enough cold glycol to charge up a cold water reservoir via an intermediate BHX. A separate system pump handles the chilled water supply to a Trident mash exchanger and fermenter/condenser. Cooler is under $2,500, and the water/power savings should pay that back fairly quickly. A few distilleries are looking to grab one of these to get them started now (the Govt shutdown has slowed up their start-up!) until warm weather hits and then we can add on supplemental cooling.

If you are set with the exchanger, how a 'bout a closed loop glycol cooler? It'll cut down on water/electrical use. Two week delivery. Mike

This small glycooler is being supplied to a distiller for most all of its cooling needs for the winter. It interfaces with a water/glycol exchanger indoors with a water reservoir and process pump. There is also an outdoor chiller attached to the glycol loop for (the short) summer use up in New England.