Silk City Distillers

We've run the rig a few dozen times now, and are now using it on every mash.  We're slowly moving to build the permanent setup.  We were a little bit hesitant to pull the trigger on building until we knew we had the kinks worked out.  We ran into an issue last mash, by trying to run the water injection temperature higher than usual (120f) - this caused us to gum up before the steam injection - bad news.  Now we know, the top temperature for water injection is around 80f.  We were mashing oat and corn, and oat has a fairly low gelatinization temperature.

I'll post some pictures later this afternoon of what the current plumbing looks like.  It's not pretty, but R&D sometimes isn't.

I am very, very happy.  Zero dust, even when milling to flour - this was the primary goal.  As a result, our batch yield is through the roof compared to the coarse crack we were using to keep the dust down.  We've probably cut a half hour to an hour off our mashing start-to-finish-time.  Running a hammer mill, indoors, with no dust - it's magic.

Is this a beverage being made for consumption?

Some of the high nutrient sugar wash techniques that are distilling-focused might not yield an ideal "beer".  Absolutely none of the techniques we're talking about yield an intermediate "beer" that anyone would want to drink.

Just keep in mind - when steam valves shut, vacuum will suck back the kettle contents into the steam lines.  You need a vacuum breaker.

If you have some sort of delicate non-removable nozzle, it is inevitable that it will clog up and ruin your day.

Spirax makes some nice stainless injection units, but they are expensive.  You'll need to do the calculations to determine how many and what size nozzles you'll need to support.  150 gallons (underfilled) - probably something like a single IN25 Spirax - which at 15psi would move ~297lb of steam per hour - roughly 35 gallons of added condensate.  You should be able to heat up in a half an hour at that rate, with 100-125g in the kettle.

http://www.spiraxsarco.com/global/us/Products/Documents/Steam_Injectors_IN15_IN25_IN40M-Technical_Information.pdf

You could probably get by with a single 3/4" TLA eductor as well, would be roughly the same parameters.  TLA eductor is going to provide significantly more in-kettle mixing than the Spirax injector.

http://www.nciweb.net/eductor_tla_heater.htm

DSI stills are common in high-solids grappa distillation as well.

@captnKB - did you do a presentation?  Something you might be able to share?

Alternating proprietorship?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/19.141

Like you said, there's a lot there to get right.  You might want to contract with someone like Dave Dunbar to guide you (and the other party) through the complexities of that.

Spend some time here:

https://www.stilldragon.org/discussion/1041/the-big-dunder-pit-thread/p1

Butter Popcorn/Hot Buttered Corn - Like @Foreshot says - Diacetyl (this is what movie theaters put on your popcorn) - the muck/backset - likely lactobacillus - primary ester would be Ethyl Lactate (lactobacillus) - gives you a really creamy, buttery flavor.

Ethyl Lactate can come across butterscotch as well, along with the other lactic acid esters.  Any of the toffee, butterscotch, caramel, browned butter flavors - ethyl lactate plays a major role, and when paired with many of the oak flavors - vanilla, coconut - give you the big brown candy flavors.

Flavors:

Ethyl Lactate - Sweet, Fruity, Creamy, Pineapple-like with a caramellic brown nuance.

Isobutyl Lactate -  Buttery, Caramelic

Isoamyl Lactate - Creamy, Nutty

Time for the iAuger.

We’ve had far more people ask us about coming in and having a more hands-on experience - that they would pay for - than people coming in to ask about buying a barrel of whiskey.

I take that back, they ask, but are often surprised at the price.

Add alcohol to water, why?

What you'll need to experiment with is whether or not running a cooler reflux condenser (higher reflux ratio) and fewer plates vs warmer reflux condenser (low reflux ratio) and more plates, will work better for you.

I did see one still with poorly designed plate bypass - at high reflux ratios, the defeated plates still had a considerable amount of action, negating the bypass.

You'll need to try both options - it can differ based on still whether top down or bottom up works better.

Why?  It's going to depend how well the plates drain and the associated pressure drop.  You'll want to disable the plates that result in the least liquid hold up on the plate, since this will eliminate the impact from passive reflux.

In my experience, I've seen disabling the bottom plates work better, but I've also heard the opposite.

A single pass run on 5 plates is likely to be over 160 proof, unless you have very inefficient plates - for your first single pass run, consider using 4 to start, and if necessary, dropping to 3.

For giggles, collect deeper on the next run, you'll see that even if you run to 0% on the hydrometer, you won't make it to 51 if you are running grain-in (unless you underestimated your starting gravity of course).

Keep in mind, if you are fermenting and distilling on the grain, you need to remove the bulk volume of remaining grain from the total volume to calculate an accurate alcohol yield.

600 gallons of grain-in fermented wash, with 1200 pounds of grain, at 8.5% is not 51 gallons of absolute (100%) ethanol (600 * 8.5% = 51), because you need to net out the weight of the non-alcohol containing grain solids that are hitchhiking along.

At worst case, 1200 pounds of grain into 600 gallons yields 100 "gallons" of solids, and 500 gallons of alcohol laden liquid.  Now, this is the worst-case - we've converted a good portion of grain starch to sugar in the liquid, so that weight needs to be removed, but grain germ, pericarp/endocarp, husk, bran, protein/fiber/fat, etc - these need to be removed from the volume - they are taking up considerable space, but do not contain alcohol.

Realistically, you'll be somewhere between 43 gallons of absolute, and 51 gallons of absolute.  You can get very clever here, by estimating the non-starch component of your mash-bill and adjusting as necessary.

Just for conversation, let's split the difference - say realistically somewhere around 47 gallons of absolute as the max.

Is there any reason why you wouldn’t strip more than one batch before you do a spirit run?

Also, with 5 plates available, why didn’t you run it single pass?

Also keep in mind that you likely may not be able to use 5 plates on a whiskey strip - as you’ll easily be above 160 proof - unless you add a lot of water.

Seems that most all of the "calculators" associated with websites that sell products to home distillers and hobbyists tend to radically overstate product yield.  Not sure that it should be a surprise.

Experiment I've been meaning to try - lay down a few barrels of a heady-cut ale yeast whiskey for longer term aging - to be used as blending stock with a more traditional cut/fermented whiskey.  The more liberal heads cut to try to counteract the loss of ester-character in longer-aged spirit.  Obviously you wouldn't go to the bottle straight with something like this, but it might be an interesting way to reintroduce more ale yeast-character into the final product.

Yes, I love to mixed ferment.  Generally though, I'm doing it because I'm pitching an esoteric slow fermenting yeast first - Torulaspora, Metschnikowia, - or bacteria, etc.  And giving it a solid 24-36 hours to build character before pitching the heavy hitter.

Why the desire to co-pitch?  Are you assuming attenuation is going to be a problem?  At reasonable starting gravities, it's not problematic.

I use a number of ale yeasts, none of which have had any issues fermenting down to 1.000sg.  S-04, US-05, Nottingham, ECY10, etc.  Chalk it up to slightly warmer fermentation temperatures (high 70s), high nutrient (backset), agitation in fermenters to reduce early floc., and mashing with little to no residual dextrins/unfermentables (glucoamylase).  Nottingham is hands down, one of my favorite whiskey yeasts.

Couple things to keep in mind.

In my experience, high starting gravities are going to make this more challenging, not less, especially if your first pitch yeast is a fast fermenter.  By the 24-36h mark, you've already created enough alcohol to create a stressful environment for the new pitch, at that point there may be enough of the Yeast 1 biomass to outcompete Yeast 2.  Reduce the timeframe, and you don't yield nearly the same character from Yeast 1.

To emphasize character of Yeast 1 - consider underpitching at 1/2 typical cell counts - this is to emphasize Yeast 1 character and to slow down Yeast 1 somewhat (yes, it's somewhat counterintuitive).  Underpitching ale yeasts and fermenting them warmer than recommended temperature is a great way to emphasize ale yeast ester contribution.

Killer Factor Positive and Killer Factor Sensitive yeasts.  If Yeast 1 is sensitive, and Yeast 2 produces killer factor - this may be counterproductive.  Pitching a sensitive ale yeast, and then a fast fermenting KF+ yeast a few hours later - you might be wasting money.

Careful with the high-phenolic POF+ yeasts - those phenols come through loud and clear, screaming all the way through hearts.  Might be your thing if you like a "peaty"  phenol character.

Really fast ferments (4 days) is not going to yield tremendous yeast flavor contribution, so it may be moot.  Fast ferments are ideal if the end goal is a cleaner spirit with higher yields, but longer ferments really begin to emphasize character - I think this is especially so with the ale yeasts.  Let 'er riiiide.

Maturation duration is a killer of unique yeast flavor contribution.  The beautiful fruit and florals of ale yeasts do not stand the test of time.  You can have an amazing new make, by the 1 year mark it's already lost considerable character, by the 2 year mark, it's almost gone.  It becomes a very, very subtle difference.  I always wondered why the big distillers said that yeast didn't make a difference.  It's not that, it does make a huge difference in new make ... but at 4 years?  8 years?  12 years?  

Concur with @adamOVD on the Champagne as Yeast 2 - EC1118 is very commonly used to rescue stuck fermentations, as it can withstand the stress of being pitched into a higher alcohol fermentation.  FYI - It's killer factor positive.

On 3/7/2019 at 9:31 PM, Huffy2k said:

Couldn't imagine using fresh corn for mashing..

Agree, what would the workflow even look like?  Shuck corn by hand and then manually cut off the kernels?

On 3/8/2019 at 9:31 AM, HedgeBird said:

I have not heard of anyone using fresh un-dried feed corn, probably because its not really available like Huffy said.  I know there are a number of folks who have done sweet corn liquor, some without mashing as modern sweet corn is already filled with sugar.  Lots of info on the home-distiller based forums.  If using sweet corn some might argue that it would actually be a vegetable liquor (brandy perhaps?) and not a whiskey, as apparently corn is actually a vegetable, a grain, and a fruit at different times..

I was always under the impression that the total fermentables from fresh sweet corn were actually considerably lower than dry feed corn.

Keep in mind, the reason why carmine has been one of the most popular colorings for the past 500 years, it has the best stability of any of the natural red coloring agents.  The most stable when it comes to light, heat, and oxygen.  Safe in food.  Anything else is a far, far away second place.  Color shift to brown is a real problem, and unless you can move product quickly, and have it consumed quickly (don't we all wish), it's going to become a product perception problem.

Stability is going to come down to reducing oxygen exposure.  This might mean changing your workflow to ensure you aren't adding oxygen at any stage in the process, it might also mean needing to add stabilizers.  

You are going to need to get into some hardcore food science:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1541-4337.12244

Bain marie?  Can you retrofit steam?  Or do you not want to go down that route?

Looks like a weird electropolishing or plating issue.