seventh son

Does anybody know if TTB is part of the gov't shutdown? I can't find any info on-line and I have not tried calling.

es in a pot still.I guess that depends on what you are trying to make. If you are trying to make bourbon, then it would make sense to use the same methods as the KY distillers. If you're trying to make an Irish style whiskey, then it should probably be distilled three times in a pot still. Aren't most big KY distillers using continuous stills, not "beer" stills?

Jedd is correct, there are a number of classes of whiskey that allow used barrels. Can't call it Bourbon, but bourbon is not what I'm shooting for. I am aging "whiskey distilled from wheat mash" according to the TTB. I know, that should confuse the hell out of most consumers, but the CFR is here to protect them, right???

Natrat, thanks for your explanation, the narrower transition from heads/middle/tails makes sense. My typical mash size is 100 gallons which seems to be big enough to make a clean cut. My pot is 210 gallon, so in theory I could step it up to 175 gallons but 100 seems to be the optimum volume for my process. Porter, I've always been told that 1 plate = 1 pot distillation. From a technical perspective its probably true, but I don't think it is truthful to say that a vodka run through a 21 plate column is distilled 21 times. The whole talk of x times distilled is pure marketing. I agree 100% that less processing preserves the true flavor. This is exactly why I am interested in a single distillation whiskey. I'm actually taking it a step further with a low-temperature vacuum distillation. I'm using used barrels so I don't overpower the flavor with oak. I'm please with the results so far.

I've read books and posts about whiskey distilling techniques and traditions. It seems that most distillers large and small prefer to do stripping runs followed by separate finishing runs. I suspect that production efficiency is one of the reasons for this: three or four fast stripping runs +1 finish run. The question that I have - is tradition and convenience/efficiency the only reason for multiple runs? I have read that the multiple run produces a "cleaner" flavor, but it really should not be any cleaner than a single pass through a short column still with 1 to 3 plates. Will the character of the finished spirit be different?

Black Beer, Thanks for the info. I called them and their barrels have all held honey or maple syrup after their whiskey is dumped. It sounds like they would make an interesting whiskey, but I can't use them for my current whiskey.

I'm in search of freshly dumped 5,10, 15, and 20 gallon bourbon barrels. Single use only please.

I currently charge my spirit still based on run time so that I can complete a vodka finish distillation in one business day. I'm considering doubling the alcohol charge and running it over two days - stopping at the end of the first day and restarting/balancing at the start of day 2. In theory, I would stop/restart during the middle run. I could run two separate batches each day, but my still runs better with a larger alcohol charge. It would not work for whiskey or rum, but the way vodka is distilled I believe it will work fine. Does anyone see a downside to this technique?

Curtis, I'm in the process of incorporating a similar process next week. I had been heating my mash water overnight by circulating hot water (180-190deg)through the outer jacket of the mash tank. Due to a recurring leak in the outer jacket I will be filling the tank and recirculating the water through a heat exchanger overnight to get it up to 180deg by morning. It will use a little extra energy with an extra pump running overnight, but its still cheaper than replacing my mash tank!

How about "Captain Ginger" or "Sailor Ginger". Just kidding....I got nothin.

John, I'm also impressed by Nick's water/heat conservation. I plan to incorporate similar methods over time. I use closed loops for cooling and heating. My only "running" water comes from two 1100 gallon holding tanks which I have filled as needed by a local spring water supplier. One tank holds mash water and the other holds cooling/process water. I have a cooling loop running underground into a heat sync in a cooling pond. It works fine for my current limited production, but I'll need to expand it, drill a well, or move at some point. The only water I dump is cleaning water.

My temperature differential will be 70 degrees maximum - usually a little less. I have been running 100 gallons at a time, but I want to step up to 200 gallons. A counterflow heat exchanger could be more effective and easy to make, but I'm not sure PVC is rated for 200 degrees. Stainless or copper would still be simple to come up with.

I have too much solids in my wash. I may try immersing a simple 3/4" or 1" copper coil in my hot water tank. With a thermometer fitted on the hot side, I could adjust the flow to preheat my mash. Same concept as the heat exchanger mentioned above, but less likely to clog - I hope!

Nick, My heating system is lacking BTU's. I currently use a glorified hot water heater to heat my stills. I do vacuum distillation, so I don't need a lot of heat during the process, but heating up is too slow. I'm adding more power, but I have single phase and approaching my panel limit already (time to upgrade that too). I like your heat exchange system, it sounds very efficient. My production is currently too sporadic to take full advantage of that type of set-up. Long term, I would like to do the same. So in the short run, I'm considering two possibilities: 1. use my current system and let it slowly heat overnight, or 2. increase my hot water tank to 125 gallons and preheat it to 200 degrees so that I have a larger thermal mass ready to heat the mash in the morning. Neither option costs much, but #1 just makes me a little nervous!

In an effort to turn my 16 hour days into 12-14 hour days, I am considering preheating my fermented mash overnight. If I were to heat and hold a mash at 150 degrees overnight, would it be necessary to run the condenser (at full reflux)? I suspect that as the temp rises, the rate of alcohol evaporation will accelerate, so even at this temp I will have vaporized some of the higher alcohols? What would be the maximum safe preheat temperature without needing to run the condenser?

I attached pictures of the tank and of the label.

Sorry, I guess I should have included that! 150Liters (40 gallons).

Mueller Model F jacketed tank with pressure/full vacuum rating for sale. This would be a nice vessel for a small vacuum finishing still. It has a small man-way and Tri-clamp fittings on top so it would be simple to attach a still head. The jacket is set up for steam or hot water. I'll send a picture if anyone is interested. $2300 + shipping this week only - it goes back to my supplier next week (they sent the wrong tank to me).

The Japanese liquor is called Shoshu. I have never had it but I too have read that it is very smooth. The low temp vacuum distillation changes all of the typical distillation parameters and changes the equipment.

I've been vacuum distilling for several years, there is a bit of a learning curve. Doing it grain-to-glass is a challenge - everything changes. Distilling GNS into gin under vacuum seems to be the path most are taking. You don't want to try any serious vacuum in a typical still - unless you like seeing implosions! Many states also require National Board certified vessels for vacuum processes. I happen to have a nice litte 150 Liter (40 gallon ) stainless steel jacketed tank with a National Board Full Vacuum certification. It would be a great starter tank for GNS/Gin production. My supplier shipped me the wrong size tank - I'll sell it for what I paid if anyone is interested. Otherwise, its going back next week.

The first definition of distinctive is: 1.serving or tending to distinguish (Collins English Dictionary) Therefore, you should be able to do a testing of every commercial vodka and not be able to tell any of them apart by taste aroma or color. If you "distinguish" any from another, then by definition it cannot be called vodka. Now lets look at the real world. In practice, distinctive is applied as a subjective term. It seems to be more of a range than an absolute. Where the edge of that range of character and aroma lies is the real issue. There are those who strive for pure neutrality, and those who push the envelope of flavor and character. The beauty is that there is a place for both in the market.

Scott, I feel your pain! From the responses it would seem that all available solutions have some trade-off - cost vs. time vs convenience. I don't have the answer, but I'll tell you what I do: I know roughly how much contact time I need per gallon. I have 5 gallon pressure tanks filled with carbon. If I have a small amount to filter, I pass it through one cannister. If I have a medium batch I'll attach another cannister. Big batches will get the third cannister. Any bigger and they go through two cannisters twice and so on. I push it through slowly with CO2.

mmdistilling, Thanks for the input. The copper mesh is a pain to clean, but I built a CIP system into one of my stills to make life easier. I do break it down and remove the packing every so often to examine and clean it more thoroughly. I'm debating wether to make the switch to ss raschig rings in my upgrade. My old stills have a combination of ceramic raschig rings and copper mesh.

Jedd, I can't make out the part number for my vacuum pump, but it is a Thomas pump. I have purchased a couple rebuilt pumps from an e-bay seller. It is similar to this: Vacuum Veneer Thomas Pump 2619/2639 Vacuum / Compressor 3-4CFM 24"VAC CDE Surpluss rebuilds and sells them for less than $100. The adjustable vacuum relief valve can be purchase from Grainger. I use polypropylene plastic tube - also from Grainger (don't buy it from the local hardware store unless you are certain what it is made from). Stainless or brass fittings are easy to source from Grainger or on E-bay (try mainland valve). There are some common sense precautions that you should take when transferring this way - try it with water a few times so that you can "calibrate" the vacuum valve for a safe flow. Always monitor it while it is running (like any transfer pump). You can pm me if you have other questions.

I agree with much of what has been said on this subject. If our industry continues to suffer these tragedies, three things will happen: people will get hurt or killed Insurance companies will drop us or jack up rates exponentially The federal government will begin to intervene I favor establishing industry safety standards that are reasonable and voluntary. I also think voluntary Industry safety training (preferably on-line) for new and existing members is needed. Properly done, this would prevent some of the accidents that may occur, prove to insurance providers that we are attempting to minimize their risk, and maybe keep the federal regulators at bay. I welcome the opportunity to make my workplace safer and I'm sure that there are creative, low cost ways to keep safe. As an industry, I hope that we don't get into a position where the government or insurance providers are mandating beaurocratic high cost solutions and inspections.