needmorstuff Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 where space is at a premium do you foresee using a still to heat up water an issue? then pump it to the Mash tun? I am realyl short on space and wnated to avoid having a HLT if at all possible. I am planning on using unmalted winter wheat and enzymes Heat water in still Pump to mash tun run mashing protocol sparge and pump to fermenter ferment pump to still stripping run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Beaver Distillery Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 Use a jacketed mash tun to avoided all the pumping. Also consider distilling on-grain. You're making vodka not single malt. Otherwise, yes you can use your still as hot liquor tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needmorstuff Posted February 4, 2022 Author Share Posted February 4, 2022 I will use a jacketed mash tun, but how would that avoid pumping? surely i have to remove the wort off the grain to ferment it? (if not distilling on the grain) But yes, mashing out then fermenting and distilling on the grain would certainly save a lot of hassle. Trouble is the target still is only 100l, has an internal element and no agitator. Also, I am planning on fermenting 400l of wash, to give me 3 x 100l (or so) stripping runs that could then be combined to 1 spirit run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glisade Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 I know a local brewery that uses multiple tankless water heaters in series to get to hot enough water for mashing malt for a 5bbl mash tun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needmorstuff Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 22 hours ago, Golden Beaver Distillery said: Use a jacketed mash tun to avoided all the pumping. Also consider distilling on-grain. You're making vodka not single malt. Otherwise, yes you can use your still as hot liquor tank. Actually if it's no detriment I could ferment 300l on the grain, and transfer to my 300l pot still. Strip on the grain. Then spirit run on my 100l vodka column. Thoughts? Is stripping with grain, dead yeast etc. acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Beaver Distillery Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 3 hours ago, needmorstuff said: Actually if it's no detriment I could ferment 300l on the grain, and transfer to my 300l pot still. Strip on the grain. Then spirit run on my 100l vodka column. Thoughts? Is stripping with grain, dead yeast etc. acceptable? We strip on-grain, as most distillers do with the exception of some single malt distillers, then do a spirit run to make cuts all on our pot still. We then redistill the finish in our vodka still. This approach makes your vodka super clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needmorstuff Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 33 minutes ago, Golden Beaver Distillery said: We strip on-grain, as most distillers do with the exception of some single malt distillers, then do a spirit run to make cuts all on our pot still. We then redistill the finish in our vodka still. This approach makes your vodka super clean. makes my life soo much simpler! awesome. I was having trouble getting a mash tun to my spec. It will be much easier to find just an insulated FV to handle the mash and ferment. Follow up question, and forgive my lack of knowledge on this subject. Wouldn't making cuts on the 2nd pot run make those cuts quite wide? whereas if you make them on a stabilized vodka column the cuts might be tighter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Beaver Distillery Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 What grain are you mashing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needmorstuff Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 Raw wheat with enzymes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleclerc77 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 On 2/5/2022 at 11:16 AM, needmorstuff said: Actually if it's no detriment I could ferment 300l on the grain, and transfer to my 300l pot still. Strip on the grain. Then spirit run on my 100l vodka column. Thoughts? Is stripping with grain, dead yeast etc. acceptable? I wouldn't strip on grain if you are using a still with submerged electric elements and no agitation. Both the distillate and the still will be a scorched mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needmorstuff Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 5 minutes ago, kleclerc77 said: I wouldn't strip on grain if you are using a still with submerged electric elements and no agitation. Both the distillate and the still will be a scorched mess. Change of plan, I'll strip with My 300l pot still which is baine Marie and has an agitator 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleclerc77 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, needmorstuff said: Change of plan, I'll strip with My 300l pot still which is baine Marie and has an agitator Heat up times with the baine marie may be painful, but it's definitely preferable to the alternative. Are you too far along to run the still on low pressure steam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needmorstuff Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 25 minutes ago, kleclerc77 said: Heat up times with the baine marie may be painful, but it's definitely preferable to the alternative. Are you too far along to run the still on low pressure steam? Not only too far along I don't want the hassle of the system inspection nor the cost. Plus I don't have the space. See my other thread for my floor plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windy City Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 You could convert your baine marie to low pressure steam without the separate steam boiler. It will heat faster and be much faster in response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needmorstuff Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 Hmm, when I say baine Marie. There is an oil or water filled jacket and 3 x 7kw atex rated elements heating that oil or water. I haven't even used the 300l still yet. So need to try it out really before starting to convert it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickFloss Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 On 2/5/2022 at 2:09 PM, needmorstuff said: makes my life soo much simpler! awesome. I was having trouble getting a mash tun to my spec. It will be much easier to find just an insulated FV to handle the mash and ferment. Follow up question, and forgive my lack of knowledge on this subject. Wouldn't making cuts on the 2nd pot run make those cuts quite wide? whereas if you make them on a stabilized vodka column the cuts might be tighter? making cuts slows down the run because you have to worry about smearing. The operating premise is strip first really fast, then fractionate in your finishing runs. If you have a column and know how to run it it is exponentially faster to vent off methanol and fores in your column run and work with less heads fro your fractionating run. If you don't know what I mean from that sentence alone just save it for a few years you'll get there. I will not go into that statement if you can't figure it out now your not ready for it. It seems you re very green. Maybe instead of trying to make things go fast, you learn the basics first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needmorstuff Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 25 minutes ago, SlickFloss said: making cuts slows down the run because you have to worry about smearing. The operating premise is strip first really fast, then fractionate in your finishing runs. If you have a column and know how to run it it is exponentially faster to vent off methanol and fores in your column run and work with less heads fro your fractionating run. If you don't know what I mean from that sentence alone just save it for a few years you'll get there. I will not go into that statement if you can't figure it out now your not ready for it. It seems you re very green. Maybe instead of trying to make things go fast, you learn the basics first. I have run a column with SPP before and when well equalised I did have good compression on the fores and heads. I was merely questioning the sense behind making cuts on a pot still on a previous comment, i think we agree the best place for cuts is a column of some description. I am quite green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickFloss Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 (edited) On 2/8/2022 at 3:52 PM, needmorstuff said: I have run a column with SPP before and when well equalised I did have good compression on the fores and heads. I was merely questioning the sense behind making cuts on a pot still on a previous comment, i think we agree the best place for cuts is a column of some description. I am quite green Continuous column and batch column are no where even close to the same in operating premises, pardon me if I'm over assuming but your column doesn't even have vents so you can't do what I said so we cannot agree. Our disagreement is a fault of semantics: column on a batch distillation system is still a pot still even if you're running a packed column on it. The premise of stripping is a batch distillation premise/function, even though some people do have continuously run stripping columns. Stripping from a batch perspective works really well in the craft model because depending on who you are and what you're working with you can turn two strips a day, so if you had four fermenters it could actually take less time (taking into account actual shift work, working days, and turn over) to strip twice a day and run it all in one finishing run then to fractionate every run individually. Most people wouldn't be able to even get 4 fractioning runs off grain in a week I think they'd go bananas because they'd have like no yield. Come to think of it none of my lecture has even mentioned positive effect on yield of stripping and finishing wines vs fractionating on grain run. As the amount of water in your batch decreases so does your tails purgatory. A pot still is a pot still is a pot still. A column powered by the individual heating of a single batch is a pot still. I think the name most often used for the pots with the 4-5 plates on them and a depgh is a "hybrid potstill." Continuous columns, in short known as columns, are continuously fed wash and work very differently than a hybrid pot. Edited February 14, 2022 by SlickFloss Lecture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needmorstuff Posted February 14, 2022 Author Share Posted February 14, 2022 I don't have a continuous column Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickFloss Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 I know I just said that. I feel like we're not on the same page. If you want help post a picture of your still or even better a video of it in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needmorstuff Posted February 15, 2022 Author Share Posted February 15, 2022 I'm not sure I even have a question anymore 😉 thanks for your help and time so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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