Grain management

[Bolverk]

Howdy y'all,

Hoping you can help give me some direction... I'm 60+ pages into searches and only managed to make matters worse.

I'm looking for help with a grain handling system. My goal would be to mill a measured amount of grain into course flour and be able to pump/blow/move that directly into a grist hydrator above the mash ton.

I dont know if it better to use a blower or vacuum, flex sprial, auger, etc or which is better for what applications.

I assume I want a hammer mill as I've read that's the better option, but I don't know if that's accurate.

There are so many options and methods I'm getting lost. Any recommendations on manufacturers or systems would be appreciated.

What are you guys using?

Thanks in advance

[Kindred Spirits]

How much grain are you looking to process?

Typically there is a pretty decent cost associated with implementing a grain processing system into a distillery. depending on the amount of grain you plan on processing each year it could take you a number of years to recoup the cost, vs getting it premilled to start.

[Bolverk]

2200lb +/-  per ferment once a week and as production grows it I'll add more ferments/shifts.

I guess I could buy pre-milled and use a flexible auger system or blower/vac to feed it into the tun and just add the milling equipment later; but idelly I'd want to plan for that growth upfront so that the equipment purchased would be compatible with that system. 

I read in an older thread that Slik city had his cyclone head on the tun above the grist hydrator and that seemed to make a lot of sense. It would eliminate the need for a separate auger system (and keep dust down), I'd just need to figure out how to feed the hammer mill.

[Thatch]

Hammermill for corn, roller mill for malted barley

depending on how far you want to move from the mill to the tun will decide the cost of the conveyor.  We got a quote for parts only to convey 30' to our tun using Hog Slat parts that was under $1500 https://www.hogslat.com/grower-select-grow-flex-auger-feeding-fill-system

Milling creates a lot of dust, make sure your AHJ is onboard with where the mill will be placed.

[Kindred Spirits]

Your best bet is to look for breweries that are going out of business local to you. They usually have all of the things you would need at a fraction of the cost of new. 

The smaller ones seem be failing pretty regularly, so there probably would be some perfectly sized for what you need as well. 

[Bolverk]

7 hours ago, Thatch said:

Hammermill for corn, roller mill for malted barley

depending on how far you want to move from the mill to the tun will decide the cost of the conveyor.  We got a quote for parts only to convey 30' to our tun using Hog Slat parts that was under $1500 https://www.hogslat.com/grower-select-grow-flex-auger-feeding-fill-system

Milling creates a lot of dust, make sure your AHJ is onboard with where the mill will be placed.

Thanks Thatch,

Why the roller mill for the barley? I've not heard this before... 

Those look great, thanks.

[Bolverk]

1 hour ago, Kindred Spirits said:

Your best bet is to look for breweries that are going out of business local to you. They usually have all of the things you would need at a fraction of the cost of new. 

The smaller ones seem be failing pretty regularly, so there probably would be some perfectly sized for what you need as well. 

Thanks I'll keep an eye out.

[adamOVD]

2 hours ago, Bolverk said:

Why the roller mill or the barle?? I've not heard this before...

Hammer mill will shred the husk, and you won't be able to lauter, if you are doing off grain ferments, which is the norm for barley.

[Bolverk]

Sorry, I should have specified I plan on fermenting and distilling on grain.

[Thatch]

Your question about the type of mill was answered nicely by @AdamOVD but you have not told us what type of grain you will be using, this could be helpful in other suggestions we might have for you.

[Bolverk]

Sorry i didnt reaize the grain mattered as far as what type of mill. Ive seen videos of all of these being run though a hammermill and assumed it would handle them all. Ill be using corn, rye, and barley in large, maybe oats and wheat... triticale sounds interesting too. 

 

 

 

 

[TwentySevenBrewing]

On 10/28/2023 at 2:52 PM, Thatch said:

Hammermill for corn, roller mill for malted barley

depending on how far you want to move from the mill to the tun will decide the cost of the conveyor.  We got a quote for parts only to convey 30' to our tun using Hog Slat parts that was under $1500 https://www.hogslat.com/grower-select-grow-flex-auger-feeding-fill-system

Milling creates a lot of dust, make sure your AHJ is onboard with where the mill will be placed.

Thank you for sharing this. We are also looking for some options, and they are located in NC which is perfect for us.

Cheers

Chris

[NoLeftTurns]

As I seasoned brewer, but novice distiller, I have seen dozens of systems in place for grain handling, I would suggest the following....

Pneumatic - Less "damage" to the material being transported (more important with lautering barley mashes). Noisy and typically costly. Can be dusty if used with fine ground material, but not always. Usually works with few issues and minimal maintenance. Usually a better solution for larger operations.

Screw Auger - A bit more damage to the material, but economical and relatively easy to install. Can have issues moving all of the finely ground materials depending on the elevations, etc. Not bad on maintenance, but can bind/buckle if not installed properly. Usually a good compromise for most operations.

Cable/Chain Disc - Less damage to the material, but a bit bulkier/more complex to install. It moves most all material cleanly due to a cellular/peristaltic type design. Can be finicky on alignments and maintenance, sometimes. Works great for in-line additions of materials (blending).

A relatively cheap option may be a "gran suction machine" from China....Its basically a small screw auger with a fixed or flexible transport tube. Another DIY solution could be a leaf blower with PVC fittings - "corn blower". Standard disclaimer, don't forget that grain dust is extremely flammable/explosive, and is just as dangerous as high proof spirits. 

Some may feel differently on this one - For mills, the previous is true. Hammer mills are better for corn, and probably rye and wheat kernels as well, compared to barley - however - this is primarily due to their ability to pulverize and expose the starch for better hydration/enzymatic action. IF you are planning to use exogenous enzymes to help starch conversion, I would suggest a hammer mill offers only the smallest advantage. The design of the hammer mill usually makes it a bit more reliable over long term (commercial-type) usage, where the knurled rollers on a roller mill will need re-worked over a period of time. Either machine is subject to bearings/motors/no grease/etc. Roller mills used to be a more economical option, but the market has leveled some.

 

[Bolverk]

Thanks for that, it helps.

So I was looking at a meadows hammermill with a blower on the side and plumbing it directly into the grist hydrator like Silk has said his is set up, but this is a pretty expensive way to start and may be over kill for a small 250g setup (at least for the first year or so)... this is a setup I could definitely grow into though.

So I started looking at a 3 roller mill with a screw auger but the rollers suck for corn (or so I've read) so I'm kinda at a point of decision paralysis...

Maybe this is one of those thing where I just need to suck it up and get the hammermill

[Windy City]

I purchased my hammer mill through Pellet Masters http://www.pelletmasters.com/products/#hammermill I have the #198 5.3 Hp single phase. it has a fan built in and the unit has worked great for me.

I ferment and distill on the grain. I mill all my grains: corn, wheat, rye, barley, oats, millet. etc down to the consistency of flour as I have no need to lauter and my equipment is not set up to lauter.

[Bolverk]

Thank you! That's significantly changes things... that 198 is cheaper than the roller mill and auger I was looking at combined 

[TwentySevenBrewing]

Following this thread, thanks for the updates, and please keep us posted on the results. I am looking to get a hammer-mill and will be moving grain from a "milling-room" into our cooker, so I am interested in how everyone else is set-up.

 

Chris

[Golden Beaver Distillery]

5 hours ago, TwentySevenBrewing said:

Following this thread, thanks for the updates, and please keep us posted on the results. I am looking to get a hammer-mill and will be moving grain from a "milling-room" into our cooker, so I am interested in how everyone else is set-up.

 

Chris

We discharge from the mill into a super sack and use a sack funnel to discharge from the bottom of the sack into our cooker. Use a forklift to move the sack around.

[NoLeftTurns]

I have seen some smaller operations start with using flaked corn, rye, etc. in order to avoid the need for both milling and cereal cooking. It is more expensive, probably a bit over a buck a pound, but it allows you to mash it directly at a lower temperature. Enzymes are of course needed still - to convert the starch, so you need some barley, or "liquid magic".

One place opted for this because they can get barley milled at/from a brewery on a roller mill, and this avoided early equipment costs. COGS went up slightly, but processing costs went down slightly (less heat/time). Barley can usually be obtained from suppliers pre-milled as well, for about 7-10 cents a pound more.

The long-term cost savings from milling/grinding your own cereals is undeniable, but sometimes getting open and profitable requires short-term compromises.

[Bolverk]

I'm still in the planning phases but buying premilled was where I was going to have to start if I had to spend $15k on a hammermil, but at $2500 the overage in the cost of buying premilled pays for the pellet master you linked to in the first year, I can get behind that as good investment.