Building a "Green" Distillery

[CODIST]

Anyone out there have experience building a distillery utilizing green techniques? We are constructing a small, downtown facility in a town that has adopted the new IGBC, which we want to meet or exceed. Our engineers are working on a system w/heat pumps / exchangers for heating and cooling equipment and are trying to find ways around a steam boiler and chiller, which they feel is inefficient. We would appreciate the opportunity to speak w/anyone who has tackled some of these issues.

[MG Thermal Consulting]

The problem you have using heat pumps as chillers is two-fold:

1. Since the are built to a strict ASHRAE standard, by operating them at conditions other than what they were rated for means they are inherently inefficient.

2. Since the heat pump is trying to serve two "masters" - summer and winter, means something has to give there as well.

Since you are in an climate where in the winter you can take advantage of a drycooler to make the chilled water (or most of it) in conjunction with a summer chiller with a properly sized chilled water reservoir to work on spikes of the load, you can get a fairly decent shaving off Kw in winter.

Looking into solar heat for your ingredient water would reduce operating costs on the heating end.

A couple of suggestions, anyway.

BTW, are you crash cooling a mash? If so, a more efficient method of crash cooling is with an external exchanger (a picture of one by Trident Stills is on my website) which can operate with a higher temp chilled water than most jackets, meaning a shorter duration of chilling time, saving energy.

If you would like to discuss various merits of process chilling, I would be happy to talk anytime.

Mike

[Sherman]

Several companies out there are building boiler with as high as 95% Annual Fuel Utilization Efficiency. Isn't that high enough for them. With that efficiency they are Energy Star rated.

[Artisan Still Design]

you can do an electric boiler and use "Certified Green" electricity.

there are a number of companies out there selling green power from wind farms.

[Natrat]

I had a (leading) hand in building what might be the only LEED Gold Certified distillery. There is a lot more than just energy efficiency involved in meeting "green" standards. Construction using green techniques (such as low VOC coatings, high air handler volumes during construction, waste diversion) and materials (low mercury lights, lots of natural light, water saving taps and toilets) needs to be documented, and there is a 3-6 month audit required that shows your commitment to running a green building. Of course, that is only if you wish to have a LEED certification, but to my knowledge, the USGBC is the only authority handing out certifications.

Lots of facilities are BUILT to LEED standards, but few go through certification.

And Steven is bang on with the notion that you can buy or sell carbon offsets or other green "credit," which is something useful because you can stick it in your advertising or packaging...which you cannot do with LEED.

Shoot me a PM, and I'd be happy to share some of the strategies that we used...both to reduce energy consumption and to find enough points to make a Gold certification. I can even point you towards some LEED consultants, if that ends up being your goal.

[Ralph at Tuthilltown]

When striving for "Green Whiskey" remember it is not just about fuel consumption. Remember before you make "Green" claims that your spirits are contained in a heavy glass container, and that you are shipping your liquid across the country burning fuel the whole trip. Remember too, our carbon footprint is inherently broad, since fermentation creates substantial CO2. So careful when you tag your goods as "Green".

[Natrat]

Good points...which might lead one to CO2 reclaim (expen$ive!...but getting cheaper) and aluminum packaging.

[boognish]

When striving for "Green Whiskey" remember it is not just about fuel consumption. Remember before you make "Green" claims that your spirits are contained in a heavy glass container, and that you are shipping your liquid across the country burning fuel the whole trip. Remember too, our carbon footprint is inherently broad, since fermentation creates substantial CO2. So careful when you tag your goods as "Green".

+1

[CODIST]

Thanks all for your input and "truth" about green. I have reached out to some of you and am thankful for all your comments, help and direction. I believe we are getting close to some answers to help us be as green as possible and minimize our carbon footprint. In addition to providing local spirits to eliminate the need for locals to drive for product, our team will now bike to work

[PeteB]

I started a similar topic a couple of years ago

see

http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=2115

In my case is not so much about building the distillery, but running it long term.

It is much easier for me than most because the distillery is on my farm

The start of the thread is

"95 % of my energy comes from BIOFUEL made from WASTE fryer oil that I collect from a roadhouse next to my farm (renewable energy) and (minimal freight "food miles")

The other 5% energy is Hydro electricity (renewable)
I grow and harvest the grain within half a Km of my distillery (minimal freight)
I grow ryecorn, which unlike most other grains, requires very little fertiliser or irrigation.(avoiding contamination of waterways)
No insecticides or fungicides are used on the rye. (no chemical contamination)
I use minimum tillage and trash retention. (sustainable farming)(locking up carbon in soil)
Tractor and truck fuel is biodiesel from fryer.
Spent mash is fed to my livestock (minimal freight) (nutrient recycling)
I malt my own grain and use it "green". This saves a lot of energy because of no kilning.(reduced carbon emissions)
All cooling water is recycled or used for irrigation.(don't waste precious water)
All distillery water is captured on my farm. No government infrastructure.(no chemical additives, minimal pumping energy)
Waste heat capture and reuse is gradually being improved.
Except for my still and my tractor, most of my equipment is second hand. I believe it is generally accepted that most older second hand equipment has had its manufacturing carbon footprint already written off. (small carbon footprint)
My distillery is in an abandoned horse stable that needed very little modification.(small carbon footprint for construction)"

[1A Distilling]

Look into options of heating you wash going into the still before heating up pot for the run. Getting the wash at 130-140 degrees before the pot still would save you 45 min or so on your heat up time. I have heard of people doing that out there. Ask around.

[TetonDistillery]

Put some solar panels on top of your distillery and call it "Mission Accomplished" !!!

Most of those "green" labels are just for advertising purposes.

If you knew how much CO2 was released in the manufacture of a wind turbine, you wouldn't think they are very green.

Here is a hint.

On average 1 MW of wind capacity requires 103 tonnes of stainless steel, 402 tonnes of concrete, 6.8 tonnes of fiberglass, 3 tonnes of copper and 20 tonnes of cast iron. The elegant blades are made of fiberglass, the skyscraper sized tower of steel, and the base of concrete.

[nabtastic]

Pete, are you drying your spent grain or do you have enough livestock for (basically) immediate consumption? I'm designing a solar kiln to dry grains since we are in an urban environment..thoughts?

[PeteB]

I use a lauter tun so my grain is reasonably solid.

I have about 3,000 sheep so there are plenty of mouths to eat it.

I feed most of it to my rams and interestingly my ewes had the best lambing % in years, even though I used less rams than usual. I think the spent grain must have given them a boost.

Good luck with the solar kiln, but in my opinion you are making a lot of work for little gain, but if you build it I will be interested to know how efficient it is.

Pete

[nabtastic]

good lord thats a lot of sheep

[MG Thermal Consulting]

Natrat,

Do you know of a company that does the reclaim?

I have been asking a refrigeration compressor OEM if he knows anyone that does this same thing (since it would involve compressing the CO2, and liquefying it into a holding tank).

Regards,

Mike

[Natrat]

Hey Mike,

I think it was Pioneer Energy and the web was www.breweryCO2.com

Of course GEA Huppmann and Steinecker-Krones do it as well, only it costs a little more :-)

[MG Thermal Consulting]

Thanks a lot.

I can see where the brewers would like that system (now cycleCO2.com)- keeps all the workers from falling asleep, LOL.

Not cheap tho, I can't see a distiller leasing one unless he owns a brewery.

Interesting though.

[Natrat]

No...CO2 recycling is not worth the dime unless you USE a lot of it. We don't carbonate our spirits, so....

Mind you, a medium craft brewery (say 10000 bbl yr) will spend over $1000 a month on CO2...and it becomes economically feasible around 15-20k bbl/yr. Necessary once you hit 50-80k bbl.

[Simon13]

Interesting. having a secondary process that can make use of the waste heat is a good way to go, such as a maltings. Bowmore distillery on Islay use waste heat to heat the community swimming pool. Some distilleries have piped Co2 from fermentation into greenhouses as plants just love that yummy Co2. Considering doing the same myself.

Seems there is limits to worthwhile heat recycling. Next door we have a hotel and there is pipework which runs the distillery (currently under construction). We may connect up to the hotel heating system to preheat incoming water.

Roseile in Scotland is probably the most efficient distillery. I call it the Death Star... locally it is known as the feints factory

[Simon13]

... article on roseile is for members... unless you click visit page from google images here

[nabtastic]

..walks away humbled..

Now that's just a beauty, though.

[MG Thermal Consulting]

Have been concentrating on methods to reclaim heat (hot water) off the mash as well as the hot refrigerant gas.

For Northern climates, have been using dry coolers to chill glycol and transfer cooling to indoor water tanks. Usually means no refrigeration from Nov to March.

Can run new line of chillers as heat pumps, but you need twice the HP to make chilled water with hot enough water required on the heat side.

One energy saver is a dual temp chiller, I run it at 25F glycol for cold filtering and 45F at normal distilling cooling operations. Relays tie in to toggle distiller which temp he desires to use.

Mike G

www.mgthermalconsulting.com