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Do I need to submit my formula?


MaskCraft

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We will be (still waiting for our DSP 18 day after being submitted for approval) distilling vodka grain to glass in our facility. We have heard conflicting answers on whether we need to have our formula approved. Any feedback will be appreciated.

Thank you,

Amy

Durango Craft Spirits

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No formula should be needed for vodka if you aren't adding anything to it. If you haven't found it on the TTB site, this tool is somewhat helpful for deciding whether a formula is required:

http://ttb.gov/tutorials/ic2007-4_help.shtml

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  • 1 month later...

I was using the tool and am a little confused. I am going to be making what would amount to a "Whiskey Distilled from Rye Mash" no colorings or flavorings of any sort. What is confusing is it seems to read that if there are harmless colorings or flavorings added that a formula is necessary, and then it says Formula required .... So from this I assume no formula approval required because I am not adding any colorings or flavorings, but I hate to assume anything with the TTB. If you put I "straight Rye Whiskey" the tool very clearly states NO FORMULA REQUIRED. Can anyone verify that I am interpreting this correctly?

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Simply put, you do not need a formula to add color or flavor to "straight whiskey" because you can not add color or flavor to straight whiskey. If you do, it is no longer straight. So yes you can add flavors and coloring to whiskey, that was for example straight "or not" up until the time you added something, at which point you must submit a formula, for your flavored whiskey.

I believe there are some products out there from some of the mega distillers, pretending to be small, that say things like "Great Uncle Billy Bobs Straight whiskey with natural corn pone flavoring, etc... But they are usually submitted as a flavored whiskey, or whiskey specialty on the formula and subsequent COLA.

The mega producers seem to be doing this because they have hundreds of thousands of unsold gallons of "straight" also known as "unsold old" whiskeys sitting around that they are now learning to market to new bourbon customers who have been brought into the space by all of the new and creative whiskeys being produced by new distilleries.

Make and market however you want, but I would think it would be better to keep the "Straight" straight, and blend some great flavors from regular reasonably aged whiskey. When a mega producer starts adding coconut cream pie flavoring to their Straight whiskey, it's got to make you think they have more of an inventory control problem, than a stroke of marketing genius.

Chapter 7 of the BAM is worth printing out force chart or what you can and can't do.

Long live, Craft

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Thanks for the interesting answer. Sorry, but my question must not have been clear. I am making a whiskey that will fit the classification of "Whiskey made from Rye Mash" I will not be adding any colors or flavors. I will be making this from more then 51% Rye and the remainder wheat. I will be aging it in used oak barrels. Will this need a formula? It appears that it will not because I am not adding color or flavor but the formula tool is a little confusing.

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Read CFR 27, 5.26

The primary gist is the following: anytime you do anything to a spirit that changes the classification of the spirit, you need a formula. This is in the most conservative sense. So, you even need it for vodka, if the vodka is redistilled from something that officially was listed as NOT vodka at one time. Seldom understood by many. That, for example, is why most redistilled gins must have a formula: because the source spirit was not gin to begin with. A little weird, and I think incorrect, by the way, in some cases. Because if you multiple distill as part of regular production to get to vodka, the intermediates, if never stored as another classification other than vodka, are not something else yet, and so that vodka does not need a formula. Should be the same with gin, but currently is not by TTB interpretation that I have gotten from multiple sources. Same for whiskey, if you do something to it that changes classification, say from straight rye to something else, it needs a formula. Obviously, this means you really need to understand whether and what the official classification is of a spirit as you do something to it. If it is a specialty, it too needs a new formula if you convert from one specialty to another.

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Thanks for the interesting answer. Sorry, but my question must not have been clear. I am making a whiskey that will fit the classification of "Whiskey made from Rye Mash" I will not be adding any colors or flavors. I will be making this from more then 51% Rye and the remainder wheat. I will be aging it in used oak barrels. Will this need a formula? It appears that it will not because I am not adding color or flavor but the formula tool is a little confusing.

You got the right answer above. You do not. The tool does seem a little confusing, I agree.

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I think it all depends who you get as your COLA specialist. I put in for a Malt Whiskey as "Whiskey - Distilled from 100% Malted Barley" I was required to get a formula because it did not directly say Malt Whiskey. As they view it, it is a Whiskey of no distinct type, which requires a formula. I could see another specialist passing it through, but it didn't matter to me as I still have a bit of time for this to age, so I just put in for the formula.

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I think it all depends who you get as your COLA specialist. I put in for a Malt Whiskey as "Whiskey - Distilled from 100% Malted Barley" I was required to get a formula because it did not directly say Malt Whiskey. As they view it, it is a Whiskey of no distinct type, which requires a formula. I could see another specialist passing it through, but it didn't matter to me as I still have a bit of time for this to age, so I just put in for the formula.

Whether you get passed depends on the COLA specialist, not what is correct, supposedly. There are a few new specialists doing evaluations now. They don't always get it correct. If they ask for a correction, they will cite the CFR. Read the citations carefully. Half the time I found I was wrong, and learned something. Half the time I found they were wrong, and they learned something, maybe going to the supervisor in the process.

Rant on. The worst is when you are exploiting the ability to use fanciful names or more detailed descriptions in your labels, and you employ a phrase that is literally true. BUT, the specialist will refuse it because THEY think it may be read or misread as one of the standard statements or types, and therefore would be misleading. For example, I had a special that I wanted to call by the fanciful name "Corn and Honey Spirit". Not allowed, even though the product is a distillation of fermented corn and honey. What else would it be but corn and honey spirit? But that could imply that it is "corn spirit", and that sounds like "spirit from corn" which would be whiskey. Huh? Yup. I think they are wrong, I tried to appeal. I was directed to drop the fanciful name or use "Corn and Honey". Which is clearly misleading, since it could imply it is flavored with honey. And it is not. Rant off.

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  • 2 months later...

I totally agree that the tool is confusing. In fact, after checking with the tool and getting the Output under the selection boxes we actually ended up submitting our Bourbon for a formula approval. Even though the top yellow box said it was not necessary unless coloring/flavoring/blending materials were added. The blue box below that clearly states Formula Approval Required. Maybe I don't need to be waiting for the approval after all before submitting for label approvals. Why is TTB so confusing?

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