inwhiskeyco Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Does anyone have experience making rye whiskey? If so, can you describe some of the major differences in mash bill or procedure that made a successful rye? After two extremely low-yield batches, I am scouring for resources on rye whiskey. I have not had much luck finding detailed information. If you know of any good books, journals, or websites on rye whiskey (particularly the mash) please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebstauffer Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Can you give up some info re: current mash bill & procedures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterStiller Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 What enzymes are you using? and how happy are you keeping them in terms of temperature and PH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendodistilling Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 You need malt, stepped temperatures held for a period, 40c, 50c, 60c. Then a grain bed of husks are not possible with hulless rye, so you have to add rice hulls. You need either malt with enough diastatic power to convert the rye(enzymatic activity), or synthetic enzymes. I've never made a big batch but I've seen onenlock up and turn into ryecrete and you basically pour on enzymes and it starts to disintegrate over 10-30/minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendodistilling Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Keywords to research, pentosans, and diastatic power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendodistilling Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Also, you want flour, fine as you can. It will help your efficiency. Barley settings won't be fine enough, you need flower not just cracking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelangelo Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 What temp are you mashing this at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McKee Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Good morning, We mash about 2000g of Rye per week and the summary of our recipe is below, batch sizes are 1000g. Ground Rye Flour, 2:1 flour to water. 2000lbs/1000g No malts, all conversion is handled via Enzymes. Top temp is about 187F We rest at various temps and pH as called out by the enzyme manufacturer for optimal yield. Enzymes:Cellulase (Beta-Glucan) Enzyme Amylase Enzmye Saccarification Enzyme Total mash time on our system is about 5-6 hours. Average ABV post fermentation 11-12%. No lautering, all grain-on distillation. When you're done, prior to pitching yeast, your mash should be the consistency a heavy wheat beer, very sugary and sweet. Cheers, McKee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelangelo Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 John, what's the Beta-Glucan doing for you? We use about 20% corn to start with and hitempase enzyme holding for about an hour before we drop in our rye grist. Seems to work fine as we are getting a ferment at about 10%. Just wondering if I am missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendodistilling Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=1063 Rye is known to have high beta glucans and those cause mash to become too thick to do anything with. The only option is enzymes added and slowly breaking down the viscosity. #1 problem with rye. Using malt is also a possibility but if your first few tries it may be worth having some enzyme around to save your equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendodistilling Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 http://discussions.probrewer.com/archive/index.php/t-12196.html Guys discussing complications in the Brewhouses making roggen biers. This has a thick head when making beer so enzymes aren't wanted but that isn't the case for whiskey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteB Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 John, what's the Beta-Glucan doing for you? We use about 20% corn to start with and hitempase enzyme holding for about an hour before we drop in our rye grist. Seems to work fine as we are getting a ferment at about 10%. Just wondering if I am missing something? You may have noticed I have posted over several years about my problems getting enough yield from rye so I am following with interest. Is hitempase your only enzyme? I have tried it and could not get a consistent increase. What temperature is it when rye has been added? Thanks Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McKee Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Hey all, To clarify, our Rye is a 100% rye whiskey, no corn....so some of this may not be as helpful if your recipe contains corn. Our enzymes and their optimal usage: Laminex C2K, 140F, 4.5 pH (during heat up) *Note, added to base water at 65F, prior to grain introduction. Amylex 4T, 178F, 5.8 pH (during heat up) Diazyme SSF2, 149F, 4.5 pH (during cool down) More on our choice of enzymes from the manufacturer website. http://www.danisco.com/product-range/food-enzymes/brewing-enzymes/laminexr/ Cheers, McKee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteB Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Thanks John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendodistilling Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Do you use any backset orbdo you use acid to bring down the pH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McKee Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Mendo, We use phosphoric acid for the pH adjustments. Cheers, McKee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestar Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 On 6/17/2015 at 10:20 AM, John McKee said: Mendo, We use phosphoric acid for the pH adjustments. Cheers, McKee Old post, but curious to know: how much phosphoric acid, what change in pH (from, to) resulted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 On 6/22/2018 at 3:51 PM, bluestar said: Old post, but curious to know: how much phosphoric acid, what change in pH (from, to) resulted? I am interested also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevea Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 On 6/8/2015 at 11:09 AM, John McKee said: Good morning, We mash about 2000g of Rye per week and the summary of our recipe is below, batch sizes are 1000g. Ground Rye Flour, 2:1 flour to water. 2000lbs/1000g ... Average ABV post fermentation 11-12%. No lautering, all grain-on distillation. I was reviewing this thread, as we are having some rye problems in our lab this past week. And after a little consideration there SEEMS to be an error here. I know John well enough to know that he is a bright & honest & very technical guy, so .... 1000gal at 11%-12% ABV is 110 to 120 gallon of pure ethanol. A gallon of pure ethanol is 64.859 mol of ethanol, requiring fermentation of 32.43 mol of glucose equivalent fermentable or 12.88 lbs of sugar. So 110 gal of EtOH requires fermentation of 1416 lb of fermentables. Further there is quite close to 3% loss to yeast mass, so at least 1460 fermentable carbs. from 2000lb or rye ! That is not happenin'. Even some beta-glucans hydrolysis can't ge t you there. 11% in the above would be 459LA/metric on, which equals top top commercial conversions for maize. If you happen to trip across this old thread John, how long a rest do you do for the Laminex C2K ? We have been having great success with the Amylex 5T & SSF2, but we need to work out the rye/C2K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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