adamOVD

Perhaps what we actually need are more small distilleries. If people have a local distillery they are stoked on, and a connection will the people who run it, then they will seek out new distilleries when they they travel or as they open. Especially if they can go there and try a flight of there products without dropping 20-80$ just to try it. Think we have a lot to learn from the craft beer model, and cooperation between distilleries. It doesn't work if everyone is trying to take away business from everyone else.

Yeah rollover form won't make everything super simple, but will help, as will carefully looking over the glossary of terms in the beginning of each relevant chapter of the CFRs before tackling the reports. Dhdunbar and Jedd Haas are pretty generous with thier time to go into such depth in their replies as well. Took me a couple days, off and on, reading it over and making notes, until I couldn't take it anymore, before it started to click.

There is a help form on the TTB web sight that gives a more detailed explanation for each line when you roll them over with your cursor. It is somewhat difficult to navigate to, but helped me out considerably.

Depends on your conversion temperature and your grain bill. Hotter it is the more sugars will be converted to unfermentable sugars due to the enzymes that thrive. They still register in your gravity, but don't ferment out. That can be good in beer for flavor and mouthfeel, but is a waste in spirits. 1.024 out of 1.070 does seem like a lot of unfermentables though, so it may be one of the other things mentioned. Just one possibility to think about.

Your grain may not have converted all the way before you boiled and killed off the enzyme activity. Think that's why Roger and nabtastic asked about the boil. Are you fermenting on the grain? If so the amylase enzymes will continue to convert during the fermentation, as long as you don't raise them above 168F. That's why you can get such low finishing gravities with grain spirits as opposed to beer.

@bluestar sorry the question was confusing, should've simplified it. I tried to edit it a bit to clarify. What I really want to know, is 1) do I need to purchase precision specific gravity hydrometers. Cfrs say "(a) The specific gravity hydrometers furnished by proprietors to appropriate TTB officers shall conform to the standard specifications of the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) for such instruments. Such specific gravity hydrometers shall be of a precision grade, standardization temperature 60 °/60 °F., and provided in the following ranges and subdivisions" 2) If yes, do they need to be calibrated? Again CFRS "(b) A certificate of accuracy prepared by the instrument manufacturer for the instrument shall be furnished to the appropriate TTB officer." 3) Is there a purpose for such precise deliniation I am missing. (Found the one in my previous comment, but there may be more.) Thanks.

I believe I found the answer to my original question. You would need a well calibrated specific gravity hydrometers to gauge spirits by weight, if over 600mg of solids. "However, in the case of spirits which contain solids in excess of 600 milligrams per 100 milliliters, the quantity in proof gallons shall be determined by first ascertaining the wine gallons per pound of the spirits and multiplying the wine gallons per pound by the weight, in pounds, of the spirits being gauged and by the true proof (determined as prescribed in §30.31) and dividing the result by 100. The wine gallons per pound of spirits containing solids in excess of 600 milligrams per 100 milliliters shall be ascertained by: (a) Use of a precision hydrometer and thermometer, in accordance with the provisions of §30.23, to determine the apparent proof of the spirits (if specific gravity at the temperature of the spirits is not more than 1.0) and reference to Table 4 for the wine gallons per pound, or (b) Use of a specific gravity hydrometer, in accordance with the provisions of §30.25, to determine the specific gravity of the spirits (if the specific gravity at the temperature of the spirits is more than 1.0) and dividing that specific gravity (corrected to 60 degrees Fahrenheit) into the factor 0.120074 (the wine gallons per pound for water at 60 degrees Fahrenheit). When withdrawing a portion of the contents of a weighing tank, the difference between the quantity (ascertained by proofing and weighing) in the tank immediately before the removal of the spirits and the quantity (ascertained by proofing and weighing) in the tank immediately after the removal of the spirits shall be the quantity considered to be withdrawn"

Thanks @RobertS . So I do need a hydrometer in that range to certify another hydrometer. From what I've been reading on the forums and the CFRs, it seems like the TTB does not require you to have certified proofing hydrometers, but it is nearly impossible to be 100% certain you are within their tolerances (.3 proof) unless you have certified them. Does that sound about right?

Thanks for the replys. Seems these- https://www.coleparmer.com/i/mn/0829780#eb-item-specification say they conform to ASTM standard without the calibration service, so I'm going to order the 1.00-1.05 and 1.05-1.10 ranges and hope they're OK. Could some one describe how to calibrate an uncalibrated proofing hydrometer? Do I need one calibrated hydrometer from each range, or can I buy one one certified hydrometer in my lowest range, and one in the highest range, and then use that as a reference point to adjust my sample for the other ranges? Sorry for my ignorance.

@Silk City Distillers that's true, guess only having to buy 2 isn't that bad.

@bluestar thanks for the reply. I may be misunderstanding you, but it seems to me you are still talking about proof hydrometers. This is the part of the TTB CFRs i"m trying to grasp. §30.24 Specific gravity hydrometers. (a) The specific gravity hydrometers furnished by proprietors to appropriate TTB officers shall conform to the standard specifications of the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) for such instruments. Such specific gravity hydrometers shall be of a precision grade, standardization temperature 60 °/60 °F., and provided in the following ranges and subdivisions: Range Subdivision 1.0000 to 1.0500 0.0005 1.0500 to 1.1000 0.0005 1.1000 to 1.1500 0.0005 1.1500 to 1.2000 0.0005 1.2000 to 1.2500 0.0005 No instrument shall be in error by more than 0.0005 specific gravity.

@justandy I get the proofing hydrometers, but aren't you also required to have certified specific gravity hydrometers?

I'm shopping for Proofing hydrometers, and I understand the need for accuracy in proofing hydrometers, especially before bottling. However, I fail to see the need for a super accurate set of 5, at 180$ each, of specific gravity hydrometers. Are they purely used for taking Starting and finishing gravities of the wash? Is there a greater purpose for them I am completely ignorant of? I've searched the proofing manual and videos, and can't find anything. I'm coming from the beer industry, and as far as I know, there was no regulation put on hydrometers, and I'm baffled. Please someone set me straight.

5.11 MEANING OF TERMS "Produced at- As used in §§5.22 and 5.52 in conjunction with specific degrees of proof to describe the standards of identity, means the composite proof of the spirits after completion of distillation and before reduction in proof."

I believe they want records in the Excel format. Hoochware is a little cheaper, and although I haven't used their program, as we are just starting up, and capital is very limited for me at this point as well, I asked them a few questions about reporting, and their customer service is excellent.

Did they also require a quality assurance plan? That is more of a mystery to me, and I think i'll have to call them to get more information. Burt out on legal language for the moment though.

Doing this now myself. My insurance provided a basic template and I modified where necessary.

Is there a way to measure the quantity of solids as to determine if it has less than 400mg per 100ml of solids in it, and can be proofed with a hydrometer? Do I just weigh any solids before their addition to the spirit? I was planing on macerating my solid flavorings separately and adding to taste, which would complicate that a little as well. Thanks.

super interesting. Thanks.