Beauport Bob

Good afternoon Travis, because I made the first comment I should be polite enough to respond. Although I am looking to relocate, you are a bit out of my search area. But that written, I can only assume the building is as it is represented. To meet Local Code is extremely important, of course. But, a quick visit to a distillery in your area may be in order. A distillery demands much water, much energy, sanitation, secure storage, etc. Heat and Height are issues. This building is not 800 ftsq, it is 2 x 400 ftsq. Big Diff. I'm sure there will be responses to say one could be "shoe-horned" in that space, but the expense and compliance requirements of running a distillery would prohibit the effort. I am not joking on this, but, how about an essence extractor? Or Perfumery as it were. There were several at a distilling workshop I attended years ago. I flipped a coin to decide which I myself would do.

Yes, Thanks Guy. Good information. Anyone else with experience with relocating?

Good day all. As snug as we are in our current facility for variouse reasons we are looking to relocate our distillery, still within our community. I believe some of you have already done so. Do any members have insight on what the best avenue through TTB would be. Timeline? Pitfalls? Advice? Thanks for your help. Bob Ryan

I can't help myself... What makes this "Ideal" for a distillery?

Of course, a "Small amount" would be relative to the Bulk amount.

There are previous threads on this that go in greater depth. I believe GS1 is actually a court mandated result of trying to compress and unify merchandise trade tracking domestic and internationally. The Sub sets of numbers cheaply available were issued to appease the others in the tracking game at the time. It is worth reading up on it rather than rely on bits and pieces of information which could lead you to make a decision you may regret. There is not right or wrong, just where you are going.

two questions: 1. what temp/rate are you re-distilling at? and 2. Dephlegmator. Do you also run through a converter? What I'm getting at is the more contact you have, the more potential for influence of prior buildup. But I do like Andrew's answer.

In regard to the Makers Mark claim on the dripping of wax,I see them now selling "Collectors Series" of "Bloopers" or mishandled wax and crooked labeled 375ml's. I am not a lawyer but I only imagine if you were to challenge their claim now they would be vulnerable. Since now they are selling variations of the drip which is no longer claimable to be unique, distinctive and recognizable. Just a thought to put out there if anyone had to cease or pay out of pocket for expensive defense. www.youtube.com/shopvin#p/a/u/0/p/a/u/0/cS_K0iSFvc4

Loss of Glycol and not knowing where it went? Red flag there! I know this and several threads before this are concerned with Glycol/oil/steam/open flame/etc for heating of the still. I imagine we are all here to be in or about to be in the business of craft distilling. Business meaning return on investment. If you are going to build out a facility, you should be aware of all the uses of heating and cooling in your plant. Let your facility and cost of energy contribute to your decision on how to heat your still. Are you going to have a stream boiler anyway? We do use Glycol, to a proper dilution by the way, for managing temps of Fermentation. I am greatful each time we turn the circulation pumps on that I do not end up with a piping crack allowing 400 gallons on the floor. We use steam to raise temp. We use steam throughout the plant. The Still, Mashing, pre heat H2O for several uses. For us, the boiler and piping also contribute to heat the plant for most of the year. For "Scrooge McRyan" it is cheaper than those electric overhead blowers, again, for us. Just consider the whole of your operation and also what can go wrong, how long it will take you to recover from a fail point and how expensive it would be to fix.

Cane Farmer, interesting, and I would like to learn more myself. In fact, very much more. Thanks. But I would like to ask carychleborad..12 brix begets 8% abv? Seems a bit high. Where did that come from, for beverage spirits I mean? I want in on that!

KMHerring 3, is that the correct link? The info would be nice to see. Thanks

Not an answer, but, this is why the TTB should continue its "Expo" education seminars. I'm glad I attended when they did in Ohio. I believe there are several questions built into the one asked by Curtis. This is a well traveled path in this industry and there are no "What if's" in the eyes of being tax compliant. Purchasing Bulk spirit is a huge part of the business. Get familiar with the TTB BAM and its "transfer in bond" aspects.

Is this the same app set up by The Spirit Journal's Mr. F. Paul Pacult? I think he did a Scotch spp. also.

Question your source for what you stated about 40% of sale price. Your tax is not based on sales price. It is in Alcohol content. 40% may be what happens to be for a particular product on the shelf. Fed excise tax $13.50 /Proof Gallon, Commonwealth of Massachusetts tax $4.05 / Proof Gallon. That is a fixed cost for your product. Again, discussed in Proof Gallons, not per bottle. Factored to be $2.14 +$0.64 respectivly = $2.78 per 750ml bottle. Does that mean at 40% of sales price you would anticipate your product to sell wholesale for $6.95 per 750ml?

I also would like to have one or two. Anyone know how they would dispose of them? Although, not to be a downer, they are heavily in demand right now. Bless those who need them for the purpose intended.

Thanks Ben. I understand the tactic now. I'm glad you got the PM's and hope they help you out. Too bad though, that there is not open conversation (which I now know why you asked)because that way only helps to perpetuate the existing workshops that may not deliver what they promise.

Ben, have you done a "Search" on this subject. There are several threads that exhust the subject

Curtis, this is a question for your accountant or lawyer(they will charge you by the hour). Or perhaps attend a local Chamber of Commerce seminar on "Start-ups". (you do not have to be member to attend). I fear you would not get answers from this community. IRS is very very serious on "contractors verses employees". States Dept's of Revenue are also very serious. You hire employees and tell or direct them to do their daily job. You contract trade or professionals to do what they are trained to do. EX: You want a brick wall over there. You contract a mason to do it. You do not train or instruct the mason to do it. They will have insurance and liability coverage on their work. You may have an employee on staff with masonry skills and can get the job done. Good we all do that. But you are not in the masonry business. Usually the transgression, or serious error in judgement, is to treat employees as contractors. Doing so you would be accused of avoiding the expensive payroll taxes, withholdings, compliant benefits, on and on. My answer to you is your own question. Staff is employees. Services is contractors. By the way, hire a payroll service if you have even one employee. You do not want to spend the time each pay period on the subject. Let them carry the burden of compliance. It is a competitive field so shop around. By the way, I assume when you asked about an accountant you meant a CPA. A bookkeepper would be an employee.

AP, let the rudeness flow. How else does anything get done?

Hello Marty, I hope you get an answer. Also I hope it is shared with all. Is that the purpose of this forum? I do occasionally use the "PM" aspect of this board, but usually so as not to congest the forums with trite talk, or when I make a "childish" statement. I too would also like to know the answer to your request about contract filling 50 ml's. Cheers,

Right on Charles. The town next to mine is Salem, MA. The Witch trials of 1692 pretty much created a hysteria based on what people wanted to think against the problem of the day. Two children looking to get out of trouble. I do, of course, feel for the ills felt by Weezy and others with their concerns. My own son-in-law has to watch every bite he takes for several items. I have seen him "swell" and required attention, even though he felt he was protected. Cross contamination was the issue. My point is in order to make serious comment you need serious controls on experimental process. We do not really know the controls under which Weezy makes his allegation of reacting to "WRB-distilled products" Hell, I do not even know if he exists. But I will not call him crazy. Just concerned about the control. We have not heard Weezy state he has no reaction to a full Apple Vodka, such as "Gen. Stark" or "Core". Also, I do not think Weezy understands the distillation process if he can write "but there are also "papers" out there that say gluten is "too big" a molecule to pass through in distillation, or it is "killed" by distillation -- neither of which seems to be the case."

Snips and humor aside, I enjoy reading all this and am more interested in my fermenters and storage than my "Store Bought" still. This subject of cleaning and keeping Stainless Steel correct is one that daunts all the newbies.

I was as Spartin as possible on the new on-line process. As has been recommended before, just give what you need to. Make it easier for the agents.

We just got approval for a label last week. It took, I think, 28 calendar days. If you look at the TTB Cola page you will see they have over 32,400 label app's to date. There were 12,000 when we submitted. So do not delay to get yours in. I also remember being told at the TTB Expo if you have been rejected for a fix, your re submission goes to the top of the list. And they may search for same DSP submissions at that time. A bit of advice... If they still do this and you can find a COLA seminar you can get a nonbinding review of your submission. It is worth traveling a few miles to get that. You can rant, as we all have, but these are understaffed, overworked people working for us. Be a little kind.

Wes, Registering is pretty easy and response is quick. Go to the FDA and see what you are required to do. It is not for Bourbon or beer or wine, the product, it is for the facility producing or warehousing the product. FDA wants to be able to track back to the producing facility. My understanding , could be wrong, is the Plant of production is to be registered. DSP's are producers of beverage ready products. To be consumed. DSP's and other domestic production houses must register with the FDA. The more vulnerable your products are, the more FDA has to worry about you. Dairy,Fruit,Veggies, fish, etc. If you were packing Frog Legs in Cambodia you would need your Cambodian plant inspected and monitored by FDA if you wished to sell/import to the USA. (I processed/re-packed-on-shore this type product a lifetime ago). FDA is concerned with sanitation, ingredients (GRAS) and packaging and process, etc. You comment "using my bottler's FDA registration number" means you are not the producer and could make you of no concern if the product is just a "Pass-through". But surley, check it out. Give'em a call.