HedgeBird

So technically we have the same/similar law in PA. The drink must be served from the original container thus preventing me from selling the customer an empty barrel and a bunch of bottles. But that state has said if the original container is a 5 gallon barrel and the bar buys that, then the barrel is technically the original container and the bar can serve directly from said container. So on the state side I know whats allowed but just want to get some more info/confirmation about the federal level options/rules.

My understanding is that we are only allowed to bottle/sell in the following metric container sizes: 1.75 liters 1.00 liter 750 milliliters 500 milliliters (Authorized for bottling until June 30, 1989) 375 milliliters 200 milliliters 100 milliliters 50 milliliters I just want to make sure that there are no exceptions, or methods I am missing that would allow me to fill, label, remove from bond and sell a larger container. For example, like sell it to this bar that is calling and wants to buy a 5 gallon barrel and seems to believe that other distilleries are doing this type of thing. Thanks!

I thought the course done by Six and Twenty was excellent. Unfortunately its on the wrong coast for you. http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=4367#entry24481 http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=3780#entry21871

Just met with a new agent today to look at switching to Cincinnati Insurance Companies Craft Beverage Program. Would be happy to compare prices once I get the quote in a few days..

Rickdiculous - I am not insulting you. You expressed concerns about heads traveling from your septic to your well water. As I view heads as less dangerous then septic water I made the point that If you are worried about cross contamination the sewage would be the bigger issue. Having heads disposed off-site by a third party is not really an option for most of us because as dhdunbar pointed out, you or your representative must "supervise" the actual destruction. That basically leaves three options. - Find some practical way to use it up - Dump it down the drain - Burn it I think most people on this board agree that it is safe to dispose of heads by diluting and dumping down the drain: Methanol - Methanol is readily biodegradable in both aerobic (oxygen present) and anaerobic (oxygen absent) environments. Methanol will not persist in the environment. The half-life for methanol in groundwater is just one to seven days, while many common gasoline components have half-lives in the hundreds of days (such as benzene at 10–730 days). Since methanol is miscible with water and biodegradable, it is unlikely to accumulate in groundwater, surface water, air or soil.. In some wastewater treatment plants, a small amount of methanol is added to wastewater to provide a carbon food source for the denitrifying bacteria, which convert nitrates to nitrogen to reduce the nitrification of sensitive aquifers. Ethyl acetate- Ethyl acetate is used primarily as a solvent and diluent, being favored because of its low cost, low toxicity, and agreeable odor. Coffee beans and tea leaves are decaffeinated with this solvent. Ethyl acetate is present in confectionery, perfumes, and fruits. Given that the chemical is naturally present in many organisms, there is little risk of toxicity. If you can't find a practical way to re-use this on site, and do not feel comfortable disposing of it in your septic system it would seem to me that destruction by fire may be the last remaining option. This topic has also been discuses numerous times on this forum. You may want to give the following threads a read: http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=5112&hl=heads http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=4879&hl=heads#entry27246 http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=49&hl=+dispose%20+heads http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=1839&hl=%2Bdispose+%2Bheads http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=906&hl=%2Bdispose+%2Bheads

My tasting room bar/sinks where subject to a commercial code inspection by the city I am in.. They required me to submit stamped drawings when I submitted for the permit; so I ended up needing an architect for some of the work you are describing as being your responsibility. I have also always needed to submit drawings for the addition of walls/separators, etc as the first part of the review (before they issue the permit to begin work) is making sure you maintain proper clearances, access, fire-escape, occupancy, etc. On a few occasions I have had inspectors allow me to create my own drawing for smaller changes. Best bet is making friends with the inspector now and getting him to tell you exactly what you will need.

Typing the following creates the sunglass wearing emoticon smiley... (i guess folks think the capital B sorta of looks like sunglasses) So every sub-section B creates one.. You could try using the <> code thingy to paste in the regs instead of just pasting them right into the reply box. full list of emoticons: http://jwtalk.net/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=legends

No, I would not drink diluted heads but then again I would also not want to drink diluted sewer water. If you have concerns about your septic water getting into your drinking water you should probably worry more about the shit you flush down the toilet than the diluted heads.

I think you mean self distribution is nice? Back in November the PLCB clarified that holders of Limited Distillery License are allowed to sell and ship their products directly to licensed bars and restaurants. http://www.lcbapps.lcb.state.pa.us/webapp/legal/PublicAdvOpnDisplay.asp?opinion_year=2013&opinion_sequence=498 And as of a few weeks ago we are now allowed to sell and ship direct to consumers as well.

Looks like PA has issued 20 Limited Distillery Licenses at this point and I think about half of these actually have a product out https://www.lcbapps.lcb.state.pa.us/webapp/PublicLicenseeSearch/PublicLicenseeDisplay.aspx ALLEGHENY DISTILLING LLC CJ SPIRITS LLC DAVID W BLACK JR & JENNIFER M BLACK DISOBEDIENT SPIRITS LLC GETTYSBURG BATTLEFIELD BREWWORKS LP HEWN SPIRITS LLC LA COLOMBE DISTILLING LLC MIDNIGHT MADNESS DISTILLING LLC MOUNTAIN LAUREL SPIRITS LLC MOUNTAIN VIEW VINEYARD INC NAOJ & MOT INC NITTANY VALLEY DISTILLING LLC NOAH SPIRITS LLC OLD REPUBLIC DISTILLERY INC PENNSYLVANIA PURE DISTILLERIES LLC PITTSBURGH DISTILLING COMPANY LLC SHAWN ZIMMERMAN STAY TUNED DISTILLERY LLC THIS LIFE FOREVER INC THISTLE FINCH DISTILLING LLC Not sure what the new NJ law allows for, but the recent PA law gives you just about everything you could ask for..

If you just did heat transfer fluid, and not steam, would you even need an air-tight seal between the outside pot and inside kettle? My understanding is that oil and glycol type bain maries are not sealed and vent to the atmosphere. The only air/liquid seal you would need would be for the still drain that would have to pass through the jacket.

Seems like a reasonable way to go. Welding stainless to copper is a massive pain in the ass even for great welders. You might be better off welding a copper flange to the still, and a stainless flange to the stainless tank and connecting these with a gasket. Also look at filling the "jacket" you create with heat transfer fluid instead of water/steam. See this previous thread for lots of good info: http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=1786&hl=%2Bheat+%2Btransfer+%2Bfluid

This option has been working well for me.. Phil Herington BLUE LABEL DIGITAL PRINTING call: (866) 506-2583 email: phil@bluelabeldigital.com www.bluelabeldigital.com | Love Your Label.

Previous thread on this topic: http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=5153&hl=

On the steel it seems like a lot of the lined ones have a "phenolic linning" or an "epoxy phenolic linning". Any though on if this specific type of lining would be suitable for alcohol? Also, is there any time frame given by GNS suppliers on how long you can store in the containers they ship in?

Anyone out there doing contract bottling (receiving spirits into your bond/distillery, submitting the formula/label for approval, proofing and bottling product, warehousing and shipping finished spirits) for a third party who owns the brand and will be doing the sales, promotion and distribution of the product? And, would you be willing to speak with me on the phone for 20 minutes? I just have a few general questions I would like to ask about your experience.

I use QuickBooks and Square and have not yet figured out how to take advantage of the integration. Thus far it seems to have just made things more complicated and I will probably be deleting all the records/transactions that have been imported direct from Square and go back to how I have been doing it. QuickBook integration with my ADP payroll seems to be easier to manage.

I can understand getting prices on stills and large equipment might be challenging, but you should be able to get other pricing pretty easily. Lots of folks on this forum are happy to answer questions and provide info. If you just need it for a budget/business plan; or orders of around 1,000 each.. two color front label $0.20 two color back label $0.20 tamper seal sticker $0.23 natural t-top corks $0.23 750ML bottle $1.50 That puts your bottle packaging around $2.45. Lots of room to lower that price by ordering larger quantities, getting a cheaper bottle, using synthetic tops, etc. Located in Lancaster PA, opened to the public Christmas eve 2013, happy to speak on the phone and help if I am able.

Located in PA. Prior to opening my distillery I spent three years building e-commerce sites, then three managing a large e-commerce site, then about three years managing marketing and advertising for an even larger e-commerce company. I also ran my own e-commerce site selling t-shirts online for about 5 years. At least at this point I am not doing direct to consumer simply because its a pain in the ass, and requires a fair amount of setup and will not generate many orders. Its on the to-do list, just pretty low as a priority.

My understanding is that a lot of GNS is shipped in 55 gallons drums that are not stainless. Can anyone give me some info on what type of drums these are? I assume they are "food grade" metal drums with some type of liner?

Thanks for that info Natrat. A Google image search does indeed show one of these stills at Ballast Point: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fbitesnbrews.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F11%2FAM64.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fbitesnbrews.com%2F2011%2F11%2Fballast-point-brewing%2F&h=3264&w=4928&tbnid=l8Tvlh-0uLzeWM%3A&zoom=1&docid=tLadojFoXZ1E4M&ei=YTyfU_uID4-xyASdlgE&tbm=isch&ved=0CCIQMygGMAY&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=933&page=1&start=0&ndsp=43 It looks like they also have another still: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia-cdn.tripadvisor.com%2Fmedia%2Fphoto-s%2F03%2Fe5%2F0b%2F15%2Fballast-point-brewing.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tripadvisor.com%2FLocationPhotoDirectLink-g60750-d2621982-i65342238-Ballast_Point_Brewing_Spirits-San_Diego_California.html&h=450&w=337&tbnid=IAVZR5FQHPf15M%3A&zoom=1&docid=ITCEH2B-sJV0xM&itg=1&ei=YTyfU_uID4-xyASdlgE&tbm=isch&ved=0CGgQMyhDMEM&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=640&page=2&start=43&ndsp=45 Any idea who built that still? I love the old-school look it has. It seems like HGM might do better with their own direct sales people here in the states instead of selling to every company that wants to pretend like they manufacture their own stills. I have no issue with Chinese made equipment, its just all these shady vendors who lead customers into thinking that they are an actual builder; when in fact they are not.

Yeah.. What seems to be the actual manufacturers site: http://www.hgmbrewing.com/cn/pro_list.asp?aid=172&sid=153 and this re seller actually seems to have a few more pictures: http://www.deutschebeverage.com/distill.html#images/D28.jpg but it also looks like he got a bit confused and mixed in a few pictures of some Carl stills? Neither Premier nor GW Kent list any distillation equipment on their sites..

It breaks my heart that people are actually giving money to a company like this. I can't find one thing on that site that conveys legitimacy to me. Certainly not the links to their "affiliate program" nor the "30 second financing approval" nor the broken blog page, nor the lack of an actual address on the contact page.. Is it the lack of a single original, non stock photo, on their site that makes you say "yeah, I want to do business with this place"? Perhaps on the Facebook page they link to they have something that seems legit? https://www.facebook.com/Volusion wait, no, thats a spammy as canned meat looking page for some software company?! WTF? Do we have a single photo of a distillery using or installing a piece of equipment purchased from this site?

As of a few weeks ago Pennsylvania does allow this.

Looks great! If your ever on the eastern side of the state I hope you stop by and pay us a visit. Would be fun to talk shop about still building. Andrew @ Thistle Finch