Max Action

Thanks for the responses and opinions. Looks like I'll have to do more homework. Brian- if you have a lead on used centrifuges under $15K, I'd be happy to hear about it.

I recall a presentation at the ADI conference about gaining a little yield using flour or very finely milled grain, compared to a coarser product. I believe they said they just dumped the spent mash down the drain. If that's not allowed by the sewage company, what would be the most efficient filtration technology to use to separate such a large volume of fine solids? All the centrifuges we have looked at, including used, are simply too expensive for our budget.

It doesn't seem very likely to me. While it's theoretically possible for some contamination as you described, it's hard to imagine in any harmful quantities. The concentration limit for a certified gluten-free product is 20-200ppm (depending on definition). If we assume the wheat or other contaminant is 10% gluten, that means you'd need 150 to 1500 mg of contamination in each 750ml bottle. That would be some pretty dirty product, visible to naked eye. And that contamination would be external, and doesn't matter what the product was made from. No one else here is interested in defending the quality and safety of their product? These are the sort of fears that could impact your sales.

With accurate information, that list will be unnecessary for distilled products. To proceed with the list despite the accurate information will in fact be misinformation (and bordering on disinformation, if you care to distinguish the two). That is because the readers of that list will falsely assume it means they could be at risk if they consume wheat/barley sourced spirits.

If a PhD scientist has already published information explaining that gluten would not be distilled with a wheat/barley spirit, then I'm not sure what other evidence we could provide to convince you. Distillation is a purification process that separates alcohol from the water, carbohydrates, protein (including gluten), yeast, minerals, etc. Gluten is "too big" as you put it, to vaporize along with the ethanol. Wheat/barley beer does not go through that process, so most likely you did have a reaction to it. Any reaction to a a distilled spirit is 100% in your head.

No offense, but it appears you're about to spread misinformation. Gluten would not be in the distillate of a fermented wheat product. Unless that product has some secondary process that involves wheat, it should have no problem being certified as gluten free. By ignoring that and promoting wheat-free spirits, people are going to infer that a wheat-free spirit is better for gluten-sensitivity. I suspect most distillers here would rather not have 3% of the American population mistakenly believe their products will make them sick. I would suggest finding a food scientist or other professional that can provide you scientifically based facts, and not rely on anecdotal information.

thanks for the suggestion, I found their website and looks like a good source to check out.

Anyone have any recommendations for pumps to use in CIP system? I'm planning to piece together my own system of tanks and hoses, unless anyone has a suggestion for an affordable complete system? I would also be interested in hearing from anyone that's not recirculating their chemicals, and just flushing them down the drain with each cleaning. I can certainly imagine pros and cons with both methods, but my imagination doesn't always correspond to the everyday real world. Thanks.

This is related to a question I posed in the ADI section of this forum, regarding the nature of ADI itself, but I haven't gotten a response yet. Is it for-profit or non-profit? What is its purpose and objective? If it's simply a for-profit educational institute, I could understand that. There is certainly a demand for it in this growing industry. But if it's non-profit, what are the goals and member benefits?

yes, I did already see the schedule on distilling.com but was curious if there was a list of participating vendors that will be there?

Same here. Any updates on this? or info on vendors that will be there?

I'm having trouble understanding what's so exciting about this post. So what if a company is catalyzing specific reactions to speed up the "aging" process? That's nothing new, and I can't imagine how it would be controversial that they might produce a product that could do well in a taste test. Same goes for someone that starts with pure ethanol and adds a nice blend of artificial flavors and extracts. There are a finite number of chemical components in a beverage alcohol, and no reason someone couldn't reproduce it artificially with good (or better) results. I think what's more surprising to me is that the aging process is such a mystery to so many accomplished distillers. There are plenty of detailed technical publications that describe in explicit detail the chemical reactions that take place during maturation. It seems the above company is simply using an ultrasonic process to speed up some of the oxidative reactions. That's not much different than distilleries using a heated storage room, or using smaller barrels for increased surface area, or using a catalytic metal plate (as I believe was suggested by an article from Michigan State). The same applies to simply removing undesired components. How many distilleries are using charcoal filtration? What I see is a company foregoing tradition for technology and ingenuity, nothing else. However, I don't see anything revolutionary about their process that will make much difference in the industry.

I'm considering registering for the Portland conference, which includes ADI membership, and it got me to wondering what exactly is the American Distilling Institute? Is it for-profit or non-profit? An educational provider or an industry trade group? Or something else? What are the member benefits?

I believe that's the washing machine apparatus the original poster was inquiring about. I'm looking at a couple used models, but they're in the $10-15K range. And that's with no warranty or customer service of any sort.

Any recent discussion about making all or some of these forum topics private? Although I'm only in the research stage at this point, I would be willing to pay the ADI membership fee if this forum were no longer publicly accessible.

We're still developing the business plan, and exploring different what-if scenarios. Suppose you invest some significant time and resources into a batch of product, and it just turns out ok. Not bad, but not up to the quality you were expecting. What do you do with it?

Templeton Rye, Kentucky Fried Chicken, etc. certainly seem to find some marketing value in a "secret" recipe.

I am not qualified to comment on barrel aging. I also cannot comment on someone's personal tastes. However I do understand logic, and just because someone has not experienced a good quick-aged whiskey is not proof that a quick aging process cannot produce a good whiskey.

I seem to recall seeing pictures from a larger distillery that aged barrels up-right. Has anyone tried it themselves to weigh the pros and cons?

I'm also investigating boilers but keep hearing inconsistent advice on sizing. The above recommendation seems a bit high compared to what I've heard elsewhere, for example Vendome recommends 250K BTU of steam for a 125 gallon system, but I'd be curious to hear what size stills and boilers others are using, and how long their distillation runs are taking.

I'm sorry if my question was confusing. I didn't mean to ask people to predict what portion of my sales would be local. I'm just curious about what level of interest people see in local customers. When I'm at the store choosing a micro brew, I'm disproportionately going to reach for the local brand because of a hometown loyalty. I'm simply trying quantify that local sales effect.

Thanks for the replies. I'm not working backwards. Calculating a break-even point and the number of cases I'd like to sell is easy enough. I'm simply trying to determine "what the market would bear," as rich phillips put it. I know the size of my local market, and have decent per-capita liquor consumption data. I'm simply wondering what percent of that consumption would be a realistic goal to capture. Is it realistic to aim to sell 1 in 50 of the cases bought locally?

Still working on the business plan, and (no surprise) sales forecasts seem to be the most elusive variable. I'm curious what a reasonable target would be for market penetration in a hometown where residents might feel some loyalty to the local distillery. Would a target of 2% of local sales be realistic for a specific product type of good quality?

Yes, it's gotten a wooden bartop and synthetic cork. So are you saying a synthetic top would be less prone to problems? Anyone else have any bartop failures, or brands they'd avoid?

Just wanted to clarify, better choice isn't necessarily best choice. I suspect you would still get some leachates with CPVC, but less than PVC.