Max Action

Maybe the guy buying your still doesn't have the benefit of your grandfather's wisdom. Then what happens? Someone gets killed, my insurance company refuses to renew my policy, and my building inspector reclassifies us as a high hazard use. I'm not going to apologize for pointing out a serious design flaw that compromises safety, and could damage the reputation of the industry. With my life savings invested into my business I have an interest in what others in the industry are doing and how it might impact me. You've got a long history of backwoods distilling? Fine. I appreciate that sort of cultural heritage. That doesn't mean it's directly applicable in a commercial/industrial environment.

I agree. You can see my own comments here... http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=2499

You're right. Still operation isn't the same as metal work, and I'm sure plenty of people can operate a still safely without knowing how to weld/braze metal. Perhaps in general, I would tend to trust someone that made their own homemade still to operate it more safely than someone that is using a homemade still made by someone else. Well I take exception to your attitude about my derogatory post. That still has no place in a commercial distilling environment. If someone gets injured or killed using that thing, I have no doubt both the manufacturer and the purchaser could be found negligent. I don't like that it's a cheap homemade still, but that's a personal opinion about its appearance. I feel it has the potential to create an image problem for the industry, and innumerable insurance/regulatory repercussions when something goes wrong. This is an industry after all, not a hobby. I appreciate that others may disagree with that opinion. But that’s not my real problem. The real issue is that “equipment” is totally devoid of safety features. A direct fire pot with no pressure relief system is an accident waiting to happen. I understand the distinction between an open and closed container, and what constitutes a pressure vessel. Get a vigorous boil going and get a chunk of grain or fruit stuck in your condenser, and it will quickly go from a still to a bomb. Even without any obstructions, there is a point where you could apply enough energy to the pot that the narrow outlet is unable to equalize the pressure. I wouldn’t trust that the manufacturer too that into consideration either. I don’t think there should be any argument when it comes to safety, or excuses on why it’s not needed.

I just read the article about the distillery explosion, and now I'm seeing this. Something tells me that isn't exactly ASME certified. Would it kill you to put a pressure relief valve on that thing? I can certainly think of something that would- not having a relief valve. In light of the above mentioned article, and the member concerns about backlash against the industry, perhaps the moderators on this site should employ a small measure of censorship regarding equipment like this, and other posts that would be more appropriate on an amateur distilling site. I'm not saying I have a problem with a licensed DSP using homemade equipment, but if someone doesn't have the technical ability to make their own still out of a couple steel drums in their garage, then they are even less likely to have the technical ability to operate them safely.

Thanks for the feedback. It seems I have more homework to do.

So far all the bottle suppliers have been happy to work with us, sending samples and providing info regarding pricing/availability. Now I'm learning that that some of the lead times I was quoted aren't entirely accurate. Now that we've identified a bottle we like and are ready to order a couple pallets, I'm finding out they're out of stock and not expecting more for "maybe" 4 more months, depending on when they can fit it into their production schedule. This is one of the name-brand bottle suppliers. That's got me wondering what everyone else is doing right now that uses those same bottles. Are they simply out of luck until they can get more? Maybe I've been a bit naive about the process, but I thought the benefit of stock bottles was to make it easier on the budget and just order them as needed. I would have thought they'd just make more once they realized their existing stock was getting low, to ensure a steady supply. If I need to order a year's worth of bottles at a time just to ensure I have enough when I need them, I could justity a custom mold and I wouldn't need stock bottles. I would really appreciate if some of the seasoned veterans could help me readjust my expectations more realistically when it comes to stock bottles. Do you feel some are vendors are more or less reliable than others?

Maybe next time you post something for sale you can provide more information, rather than just generically advertise your website. Perhaps you can offer more details on what sizes and types of equipment you have, and what your prices are. I can see this posting has over 70 views since yesterday. It would be much more efficient for you to take a little more of your own time to post the information here for readers to see, rather than make 70+ people each visit your website seperately and then follow up with an additional phone call to ask about pricing. Not only would it save a lot of wasted man-hours, you may actually get better results. I've read marketing studies showing price transparency often results in better quality leads and more sales for retailers, compared to those expecting buyers to "call for pricing." So, with that said, how much are your used barrels?

It seems part 19.54 and 19.55 in CFR 27 implies you could use the DSP premises for purposes other than producing spirits, if you get TTB permission. Anyone have any experience with actually getting permission for other uses, or if there are some things minor enough that they don't need to be bothered with it? We're going to have more space at our warehouse than we'll need, and I'd like to use part of the shop for personal storage and other hobbies. Not sure if I want to request it on our initial application and risk any delays however.

Can you post better pictures here or on your website? And how long does it take to heat up a full charge to boiling temp?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. However having a 40 year track record of voicing opinions does not give someone the authority to dictate what is Bourbon and what isn't. Personally I don't think it gives them much authority to dictate what is good or bad either. In a blind taste test many consumers might opt for blended whiskey rather than straight bourbon. The consumer might like the smoothness of the blend, but the “expert” insists the bold flavors of the bourbon make it the better product. Those are simply personal preferences, why should one of their opinions carry more weight than the other? That’s also a flaw with many of these so-called experiments. I’ve read many of these same Buffalo Trace experiments, and always wondered why they’d simply rely on the limited opinions of the distiller and a few “experts.” I can just imagine them all standing around patting themselves on the back over their ability to distinguish the good from the bad. The problem is that they all have preconceived notions regarding what they expect a good product to taste like, but they have not provided any evidence that they have the same palate as the average consumer, or that their consumer would not want to try something new. Those experiments seemed mostly to demonstrate whether or not they could use a different process to make the same product they’ve always made. Bourbon is defined by the law, nationally and internationally. There is no reason a new producer shouldn’t use the name if they meet the requirements. They might be at a competitive disadvantage if they don’t. It seems a bit dubious for someone to insist they “know” what bourbon should taste like, based on their experience drinking the same handful of brands over and over, and then insisting a new brand with a different flavor should not use the name. Should we be expected to believe that Bourbon has always tasted exactly the same way for the last 200 years, and should never change in the future?

I believe people are already using soybeans, aren't they?

Nothing is preventing us at this point, as we are in too deep to back out now. But we're still constantly tweaking our numbers. Calculating break even points and revenue per case is easy enough, but establishing sales goals for a particular territory is tougher. I just thought it would be nice to have an example of someone else's success. "If XYZ was able to sell that much in their town, maybe we should aim to sell proportionally the same amount in our town" I do have some ballpark ideas already, based on data I've been able to gather here and there, and making extrapolations based population sizes and consumption rates. But the more data the better...

If you all don't mind, I'd like to revive this thread. I'm not comfortable asking individual distillers how many cases they're selling. However, if you're willing to share your sales volume and how it compares to the size of your market, I'd be happy to hear it. Feel free to send me a private message. Besides that, how about a hypothetical example? Suppose Anytown Distillery is planning a new vodka distillery in Anytown, USA, population 100,000. According to the state liquor authorities, Anytown is a thirsty city and consumes 30,000 cases of vodka each year. What would be a reasonable goal for a number of cases that the distillery should aim to sell in its hometown annually?

Ah yes, the leftover tails from previous run. I should have read more closely. I suppose that might work for them if they run the same thing every time, under the exact same conditions. I guess I was originally imagining it as a test for something like ethyl acetate, which also has limited solubility in water. Anyone use other such objective measures to start hearts cut, besides %Abv? Or is everyone relying on their on subjective sensory analyses?

I was just reading about the demisting test done at Scotch distilleries, and curious if anyone here uses that technique to help make their own heads cuts?

I've read you can't over oxygenate just using air. Anyone here have any experience in how much cooling you can get from aeration? I'd be curious if you could keep pumping air through your hot wort until it reaches a pitching temperature, and if that could be a practical alternative to using a heat excanger or other cooling mechanisms.

750ml bottles, probably round. Unless there is an affordable labeler for square bottles I'm unaware of? Xpressfill and similar units are what we've considered so far for fillers, so anything with that sort of production capacity would be acceptable. We're not looking for conveyor belts and automatic equipment at this point, if ever (as you might infer from our inquiry of the smaller still size).

We've always assumed we'd go with a bar-top cork, so never took the time to seriously consider other closures. Now that it's getting closer to actually pulling the trigger, I'm thinking it might be best to at least consider the other options. I think I'm farily well informed on ROPP caps, but don't know anything about the pre-formed continous thread caps. I've seen a few that look pretty sharp on finished products, and that thread type is offered on a lot of stock bottles. Does anyone have an opinion on the reliability of these caps? How about the ease of use/assembly?

Looking for a 200-500L still with the usual assessories: 4 plate column, condensor, agitator, CIP, etc. Anyone have any leads on such a system? I've gotten quotes for new units from the usual mfgs, but would prefer to save a little money (and time) if there is a used one out there. I'd be curious to know of any 2-4 spout bottle fillers as well. And while we're at it, maybe a single phase explosion proof pump?

I'd like to revive this thread. There is a United Methodist church in the vicinty of a site we're looking at. Our permiiting process would require public notice and comments, and I'm wondering if anyone has any feedback on this particular denomination. Some internet research suggests it might not be so tolerant of spirits. Just trying to figure out if it would be best to approach them with the plans in advance, or just wait until the ball is already rolling and public notices sent out?

Thanks Quirk, those are helpful. Anyone else have suggestions?

We're finally finishing up the business plan, and would like to include some references to favorable reports from the media or industry tradegroups regarding the growth prospects for microdistilleries and/or specialty spirits. Any suggestions?

Thanks for the feedback John, did your sewer authorities simply accept the logic you used above or did they require a statement from an engineer, or actual testing? Anyone else?

I'd like to revive this thread. I'm looking at sewage service, and our rates are determined by our average effluent strength (BOD mg/ml). Perhaps I should consult an engineer as suggested above, but just curious if anyone can share their own experiences establishing sewer service, and what BOD levels they've measured or calculated with their own processes. (and yes, I already know that each process is different) Thanks!

I'd like to revive this thread. Is Anchor Distilling actually using air cooled coils in their production? Some of the pics I've seen of their setup seem to suggest that. Has anyone here thoroughly investigated air cooling enough to intelligently discuss possibilities and limitations?