John McKee

We have Qty (9) used tanks for sale, available immediately from Butte, MT. 1200g 304 SS Single Wall Internal 2" coils (for cooling and/or heating) Internal Mixers Non insulated, non jacketed $4/gallon. We can provide forklift and loading assistance. Cheers.

The 2 800's have sold but the 1000g is still available. I also have 9, 1200g Conical bottom, SS, single wall tanks, all with 2" internal coils for heating and cooling. Please PM if you'd like info on those as well. Cheers.

I'll not offer any disparaging comments, but this is a classic case of we run "marketing companies that make hooch." My guess is that his marketing firm looked for a target audience, worked hard on crafting a message, and that is ultimately what he hung the fortunes of his company upon. I'm interested to see how this plays out. One bad review doesn't sink a product, but it does give us all a reason to remind ourselves that message is king, product quality is queen. I say this because I haven't tried the product, I'm assuming that most of us have not, but we all probably have a more negative association of his product that we did before. Even if he makes angel tears and puts them in the bottle, the court of public opinion is a tough one in which to mount an appeal. My best to him and hopefully if someone writes this kind of article our products, I'm prepared to handle it. Good learning. Cheers.

http://www.foodrepublic.com/2011/11/08/finally-whiskey-horrible-people

Clear Water, I understand your frustrations, getting a business like this off the ground is more than just tough, its exhausting, frustrating, and so very expensive. However, trust me when I say that you need to focus your efforts toward your strengths of making, distributing and selling hooch. You don't need to be figuring out code for a sprinkler system - either pay a professional to do it, or don't do it. With respect, if you install your own sprinkler system, without proper design, line sizing, code application, and the other rigorous details that require a proper operating system you can ensure yourself that I won't ever enter your facility. If you choose that level of recklessness in something so important, I can only imagine what your choices will be otherwise. I know where you're at. We've all been there. Tired, low on funds, and so ready to just be done with the construction and making hooch. We've all looked at things like you've been suggesting in this thread. But please take a deep breath, look at your available choices, and make good ones. "Overspending on a startup" is the least of your worries if you make poor decisions before you startup. Please don't take this as a flame-war or troll, I honestly want you to succeed, but you need to do it right. Unless you have a P.E., you can't do what you're suggesting correctly. Cheers.

I used the group below. Very reasonably priced and since they did my work, you should have a leg up since they have experience with spritis. Jessica Miller Sprinkler Technology Design, Inc. 2011 N. 22nd Ave, Suite #4 Bozeman, MT 59718 ph: 406-582-1936 x108 fax: 406-585-8332 jessica@sprinklertechnologydesign.com

I'd love to stop by your distillery on Sunday if possible.

Hey all, I'm running around Chicago all week and if a few of you are in the area it would be great to meet you. Cheers John 406.498.5045

Hey all, We have 3 tanks available for sale. All tanks are: Single wall SS Side mounted internal mixers, with motors Flanged lids Side mounted sight glasses Tri-Clamp fittings Before being used as fermenters for our operation they were previously used in beverage soda production Tank #5: 1000g with a conical bottom. Tanks #4 & #8: 800g with sloped bottom. Each tank is available immediately for $3.50 / gallon. All tanks are located in Butte, MT. Shipping is responsibility of the buyer but we can assist with forklift and loading onto truck. Cheers.

So does this mean they're going to pull a Woodford Reserve and start blending in stock from other distilleries to get back up to 45%? Cheers. Dear Ambassador, Since we announced our decision last week to reduce the alcohol content (ABV) of Maker’s Mark in response to supply constraints, we have heard many concerns and questions from our ambassadors and brand fans. We’re humbled by your overwhelming response and passion for Maker’s Mark. While we thought we were doing what’s right, this is your brand – and you told us in large numbers to change our decision. You spoke. We listened. And we’re sincerely sorry we let you down. So effective immediately, we are reversing our decision to lower the ABV of Maker’s Mark, and resuming production at 45% alcohol by volume (90 proof). Just like we’ve made it since the very beginning. The unanticipated dramatic growth rate of Maker’s Mark is a good problem to have, and we appreciate some of you telling us you’d even put up with occasional shortages. We promise we'll deal with them as best we can, as we work to expand capacity at the distillery. Your trust, loyalty and passion are what’s most important. We realize we can’t lose sight of that. Thanks for your honesty and for reminding us what makes Maker’s Mark, and its fans, so special. We’ll set about getting back to bottling the handcrafted bourbon that our father/grandfather, Bill Samuels, Sr. created. Same recipe. Same production process. Same product. As always, we will continue to let you know first about developments at the distillery. In the meantime please keep telling us what’s on your mind and come down and visit us at the distillery. It means a lot to us. Sincerely, Rob Samuels Chief Operating Officer, Ambassador-in-Chief rob@makersmark.com Bill Samuels, Jr. Chairman Emeritus, Ambassador-at-Large bill@makersmark.com

Max, In my past one never used a VFD on a centrifugal pump, only on PD pumps. However, that notion is changing some, especially in very large applications. To help with this answer I looked to a few sources and overall they say it can be done, but it has some drawbacks. http://www.lawrencepumps.com/Newsletter/news_v03_i12_dec06.html Pretty sure their concerns are for centrifugal pumps much larger that our typical pumps, but thought you'd be interested in the following bullet. Explosion proof motors must be rated as certified for VFD operation before they can be used with a VFD. Qualified motors will state on the nameplate that they are certified as explosion proof for VFD operation, as well as any operational limitations The motor manufacturer should be consulted for operational limitations. Most variable frequency drives restrict the minimum continuous speed to some percentage of the nameplate speed. Below this minimum speed, temperature rise may damage the motor. Every 10oC rise above the rated temperature in a motor reduces the insulation life by half.limitations. Cheers.

In my experience and opinion this is a newer phenomena and is going to continue to get worse. Our insurance carrier dropped us, without chance of appeal and with no accidents, injuries, or lost time incidents....because of the number of fires, explosions, and incidents that others in this industry have allowed to occur over the last few years. Expect annual rate increases, higher premiums, etc if our industry doesn't change its approach to running ethanol distillation refineries. Plan your OPEX and expansion budgets accordingly. Cheers.

Nice.

Science rocks. I stand corrected!

Hey all, In some research of the CFR for a customer, I found the information listed below. I've often heard people suggest that you can't legally take receipt of a still or distilling apparatus without first obtaining your DSP. The CFR below seems to suggest otherwise. Just an FYI and if I'm incorrect in my reading, please let me know. Cheers. From 27 CFR 29.55 - Registry of Stills and distilling apparatus: (a) General. Every person having possession, custody, or control of any still or distilling apparatus set up shall, immediately on its being set up, register the still or distilling apparatus, except that a still or distilling apparatus not used or intended for use in the distillation, redistillation, or recovery of distilled spirits is not required to be registered. and ( b ) When still is set up. A still will be regarded as set up and subject to registry when it is in position over a furnace, or connected with a boiler so that heat may be applied, irrespective of whether a condenser is in position. This rule is intended merely as an illustration and should not be construed as covering all types of stills or condensers requiring registration.

Vacuum distillation is pretty standard in fuel ethanol refineries too.......20-200 MGY kind of facilities. So figure most of the NGS available from outfits like UltraPure and others has been vacuum distilled.

Exactly.

John, You're spot on, the copper contact can be a "demister pad" or other copper packing in the vapor path. In a still, say the size of Buffalo Trace's, that pad is about 4'-5' across and about 4' tall. Its a consumable that is replaced on a regular schedule. The remainder of the still is made from SS and some other mild steels. The demister pad acts as the contactor, condenser, and chemical reagent for the sulfur compounds. So yes, to be clear, Copper is required, but not in the amounts that one typically sees in the construction of an artisan-scaled still system. Cheers.

Can you please describe the chemical reactions that take place at those 4 places? Chemical Engineers in both industrial and beverage ethanol can only describe 1. I would very much appreciate (honestly, not being sarcastic here) you sharing your understanding of the other 3 reactions you describe. Thanks in advance. Cheers.

Copper is required in only one place during the distillation process. My point was to communicate that building distillation equipment from solid copper is a waste of money. Think about the body of a pot still. Cut a cross section from that still wall and you have about 1/4" copper. Only the interior surface comes into contact with beverage alcohol....all of the rest of the copper will never see the spirits. (Now some people are going to say that the copper erodes over time, so eventually, even that copper in the center of the still-wall cross section will see the beverage alcohol.....this is true if you run 5-10 MGY for 40 years. Not true for anyone one this forum making hooch.) So....when asked by those looking at equipment, I try to suggest budget savings can be had in CAPEX costs for stills by purchasing system for their utility, not for their esthetic. If esthetic is your concern, by a stainless still and then have someone wrap if in thin gauge copper (cost you less than $6K for a 1600g pot still) and you have your show piece. Cheers

Here are some others in the same venue: Labeling, COLA, etc. http://www.bevlaw.com/bevlog/ Alcoholic Beverages Law Blog. http://www.alcoholicbeverageslawblog.com/articles/alcohol-and-liquor/ Legal Libations: http://www.legallibations.com/ Cheers

Jedd, http://www.amazon.com/Gallon-5-Stage-Reverse-Osmosis-Drinking/dp/B003LMHMW8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1357318184&sr=8-2&keywords=applied+membranes+ro+water+systems Dave, You have some interesting points. Our water is municipal supply and most of the disinfection issues are handled prior to our site. Once inside, the RO storage tank is a sealed tank. Are you suggesting that I should investigate it as a source of contaminant.....from local conditions in my facility? I hadn't thought along those lines before. Thanks. I'll have some water from that tank tested and I'll let you know of the results. I honestly hadn't thought of this issue before, thanks a lot. Cheers.

We use an RO system. 100g/day system from Amazon, piped to a 250g storage tank with a float valve. Fills when we need it, stops when full. All in, maybe $300 of parts and labor, less the storage tank. For that we used a re-purposed poly liquid shipping pallet. Cheers.

You will only make a GNS worse by attempting to redistill it. Get a Lab Analysis from the vendor, you'll see there is nothing in the GNS that you can possibly take out or make better....with any type of still, much less a pot still. Cheers.

Steve, I agree with most of your points.....2X overruns are not normal in good planning. We brought our project in under 5% of budget, but we planned for the better part of 2 years. I think that got us around the knee-jerk "get the doors open!" philosophy of planning and execution. It hurt to put out money for 2 years, without a return, but ultimately the planning led to a well executed project, within budget. One note, don't discount a Tasting Room. The value greatly exceeds anything you currently have modeled....especially with regard to product outreach. If you have the chance to open a tasting room, do so. Cheers.