DWBM1 Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Needing to bring down the PH of our mash, doing a 100% corn cook no malted barley so using some enzymes but the enzymes PH range is lower than our mash as is, I know people have suggested malic acid, citric acid, phosphoric etc. for this, we have Malic, how much does it take though to bring the PH down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindred Spirits Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 What is your current pH of your mash? That will dictate how much you will need to add. If its just slightly out of range it will most likely come down once the mash starts fermenting. If you want to lower it during mashing, you could always add in some pH stabilizer like red star 5.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWBM1 Posted March 27, 2023 Author Share Posted March 27, 2023 @Kindred Spirits Pretty high, it was at around 6.5 and the enzyme company said to get it down closer to 5.5, I assumed I should lower it during mashing so its ready for when we pitch the enzymes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindred Spirits Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 How large of a mash are you cooking? If its just a small trial batch, I would let it go and see how the ferment goes. Typically on the grain mashes experience a fall in pH overnight after pitching. Also what enzymes are you using for the mash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWBM1 Posted March 27, 2023 Author Share Posted March 27, 2023 @Kindred Spiritsso would it be best to wait and pitch the enzymes the next day if the PH falls into range? about 800 gallons, sebamly GL and sebstar HTL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindred Spirits Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Those enyzmes work better at elevated temps, you should pitch them during the mashing routine, especially the HTL, as that will help with conversion along with the GL at a lower temp. I have had good success splitting the high temp alpha in half and putting half on the heat up to gelatinization and the other half on the way down. Then pitch all the GL once you are down to its prefferred temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWBM1 Posted March 27, 2023 Author Share Posted March 27, 2023 thank you @Kindred Spirits!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindred Spirits Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Sure thing, if you run into some issues, or have any more specific questions feel free to reach out. You should have my contact info in your inbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamOVD Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 There's a thread that warns against Citric acid on here. I use Lactic, as it is most likely being formed during fermentation by Lactobacillus anyways. I feel like it's the closest alternative to backset without using backset. Having a lower starting Ph can have other benefits as well. Like keeping out mold and butyric acid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickFloss Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 Malic îs great Lactic is great too depends on your spirit type and your product goals Citric adjustments have been something identified by spirit judges as a noticeable flaw in some distillates, not everyone who has ever adjusted with citric but some in contests have received that feedback. In my experience through my career working with a few larger operations in and around Louisville and cinci citric adjustments sparingly used except for in infected ferms just my .02 Slick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_Kelly Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 On 3/28/2023 at 1:06 PM, SlickFloss said: Malic îs great Lactic is great too depends on your spirit type and your product goals Citric adjustments have been something identified by spirit judges as a noticeable flaw in some distillates, not everyone who has ever adjusted with citric but some in contests have received that feedback. In my experience through my career working with a few larger operations in and around Louisville and cinci citric adjustments sparingly used except for in infected ferms just my .02 Slick Can you elaborate more on the citric acidulation being a flaw in spirits comps? I've always used citric since the start of my distilling career (we used tartaric at my various winery jobs) and I've never been able to detect citric in the spirit. I've never used lactic either, it seems to be a favorite for those that come from a brewing background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickFloss Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 (edited) On 4/12/2023 at 5:48 PM, C_Kelly said: Can you elaborate more on the citric acidulation being a flaw in spirits comps? I've always used citric since the start of my distilling career (we used tartaric at my various winery jobs) and I've never been able to detect citric in the spirit. I've never used lactic either, it seems to be a favorite for those that come from a brewing background. Sorry can't really go into it it's feedback I have been given from spirits comps for products I have consulted on, specifically an aged brandy and contest was SF that's why I delivered it with a caveat because I don't know what they're talking about but they were right I did do that. I have heard Fraley touch on it but never explain herself. Edited April 20, 2023 by SlickFloss Clarity/Typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwentySevenBrewing Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 Does anyone use any backset in there mashes? I know that this too will lower pH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickFloss Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, TwentySevenBrewing said: Does anyone use any backset in there mashes? I know that this too will lower pH. We use whole stillage for back set. Big guys mostly use thinned stillage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWBM1 Posted April 27, 2023 Author Share Posted April 27, 2023 We would have looked into backset if we had it but we usually do a multi grain mash bill and this was for a 100% single grain that we were running as a new thing so did not have backset for it unfortunately, I dont have much experience adjusting PH outside of using backset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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