More progress, hand made copper still....

[Jimmidaboot]

I've busily been working on this still for Kymar Farm Distillery in CT. Here are some update pics. The head is nearly done. It is riveted and then tig welded. Quite a solid unit! Enjoy the pic!

[Jimmidaboot]

OK, figured out the whole thing with the posting from URL. Pics below. The young kid is Aaron, a local welding student who is interested in my work. He has been a great help, and with the size of the pieces I'm handling now, I need all the help I can get!! The bottom two pictures are the beginning of the boiler top, where the head obviously connects. I told Aaron to "look tough"....LOL!! Kids these days!!

[Jimmidaboot]

[Panoscape]

That's looking real nice! Great job.

[PeteB]

Looking good Jim.

A couple of questions if I may, as I love creating things with my hands

Looks like your copper sheet is resting on a piece of thick conveyor rubber while you hammer it, is that correct?

What type of hammer do you use?

The top section of the head above the rivets, is that one piece or several? If it is one piece,it is amazing how far copper can be pushed.

Looks as if it might have been spun first then hammered!

[Jedd Haas]

What's the thickness of the copper?

[Jimmidaboot]

Hey Pete,

No problem at all answering some questions. Thanks, by the way, for asking. I use a combo of methods for shaping. What the copper is sitting on is a leather shot bag. I use an oak mallet with one end rounded off to form it, along with an array of Peddinghaus hammers and a few cheap Harbor freight hammers that I grind into the shape I want. HF because if I screw it up, it was inexpensive to begin with. The top part of the still head is one piece that starts as shown below. The seam is done with silver solder, or silver brazing rod. From now on I'll be welding, though, as my apprentice has proven to be a wiz with the TIG machine. The material I've been using is 19g copper (.043"), Jed. The boiler body will also be 19 gauge, but the bottom where it will be in contact with the flame will be heavier stuff at 16g or about .065". Although it may seem thin, when the shapes are made round, they gain a huge amount of rigidity.

[leftturndistilling]

Really Cool Jimmy !!! You are my hero !!!

[Jimmidaboot]

Those are some pretty low standards ya got there, Brian!! LOL

[Artisan Still Design]

love the hammered and riveted look

[PeteB]

.065 inch = 1.6 mm, very thin base for direct flame. If the still is going to get some serious amount of work it won't last very long.

[Jimmidaboot]

You reckon I should plate it with a second layer then? I'm wondering why you think it won't last long. I know copper requires a temp of almost 2000 degrees Fahrenheit to melt. I would hope that anyone running a still wouldn't hit that temp, what with scorching and all. Please let me know what you think. I've looked at several copper alembic stills and none of them appeared to be made from really thick plate.

[Moe]

.065 weight will work fine up to 35 to 40 gallons. Planishing the copper adds a lot of strength

Moe

[Moe]

Jimmy

I see in another post that you plan on this still being 700 liters. You should rethink the design and metal thickness. One option is to just purchase the pot from Vendome and put your head on it. You are almost at the limit of copper thickness to build using the dovetail seem method. If you have the right equipment it is actually easier to tig weld 3 or 4mm copper if you use the right rod. Also it is often easier to get a water tight seem with rivits on thicker copper than on the thinner. But rivits become time consuming. I suggest you save your .065 copper for heads and regroup on the pot design and make.

Moe

[Jimmidaboot]

Thanks Moe. I'm not using the dovetail method on the still body. It is all TIG welded. All rivets are brazed for water tightness. I'm on my smart phone now. Will check back in later.

[Artisan Still Design]

i'd reccomend doubling the thickness on the main body

we do 5mm on most of our copper, 3mm on the lynes which are impossible to shape with thicker.

yes it is harder to shape, but will last much longer,

for direct heat keep the botom flat and go as thick as you can manage, it will help with durability

[Jimmidaboot]

I'm absorbing all of this info and definitely appreciate all of it! Thanks everyone. I have a nagging question, though. What is the reason for such thick metal? Is it because copper dissolves in the mash? Is there some sort of consumption of the metal? Please inform me as I'm EXTREMELY new to this and want desperately to learn.

[PeteB]

A Scottish distillery, I think it is Glenfiddich, uses gas fire. The bottoms of the stills are 12 mm thick. $$$ Why?

Someone might come up with a bit more detailed chemistry, but basically there are a lot of slow chemical reactions with hot copper. Inside there are sulphates and oxides forming with the copper and these get dumped with the spent mash. Oxides and nitrates form on the outside where the flame is and these flake off. The copper very gradually thins.

If it is not used very much the thin copper will probably last many years.

[Jimmidaboot]

OK, makes sense. So, if I upgraded to the 16g boiler sides and double the thickness on the bottom, does it stand to reason that this still will last quite a long time? As of right now, I believe it will only be run on the weekends. I believe if the distillery becomes more of a production facility, it may get a lot more use, but I'm not sure how long it might be before that happens. I really want to build something that will last and be a good investment for my clients. They are very solid, good folks and I want to set them up proper.

[Moe]

Jimmy

If you are making a 700 gallon porteguese Alembic still , stay with the .065 as that is what they are made from. Check out on google "The Scotch Pot Still" I think itts is part 1. Also check out John Fuller book " Art of Coppersmithing" They both have bottoms bowed up while the Portegues alembic has bottom bowed down. I am not getting enough information from you to help but I like your work

Moe

[leftturndistilling]

Hi Moe ....I am a rookie copper pounder with no training..I have the book you mentioned and cant make heads or tails (pun) out of how they refer to thickness, 8 pound plate 14 pound sheet or 30 pound plate... As the book was written in 1911 the language they use does'nt cross over .... Anywhere to find reference to these measurements.... Thanxxx...Brian

[Jimmidaboot]

Here are the stats: 700 ltr (185 gallon) Portuguese style alembic still, direct fire method, 30 gallon doubler with water bath head, 40 gallon condenser barrel, all copper construction.

[Moe]

Brian

I know Fuller has a system but it has never made any since to me. I make teapot spouts with what is called 32oz. copper ( it weighs 32 oz per square foot or 2 pound) .043 inch thick or 19 guage. But Fuller says to make teapot spouts with 15 pound copper. In my mind 15 pound copper is about 1/4 inch thick. I have used this book since 1970 when I started making copper pots and pans and just love it but pay no attention to his thickness references.

Jimmy

Yes I think thoses thickness will work It will be better than the ones made over seas. Don't tig with electrical wire use the deoxidizes copper rod. It has 1% tin to cut down on porisity and is worth the cost. Over time it turns a little darker than copper so you can see the weld line if you know what you are looking for. I am pretty sure it is all made in China. Hope you figure some mechanical way to assist in plannish.

Moe

[Sisyphus]

A Scottish distillery, I think it is Glenfiddich, uses gas fire. The bottoms of the stills are 12 mm thick. $$$ Why?

I'm new here and still learning. Conversations like these open the doors to more and more understanding of the nuances of the craft and I love it!

Pete, Here's something I learned while following Moe's suggestion to Google "The Scotch Pot Still". While it's true that there's degradation from the fire side of the flat plate stills that Glenfiddich uses, it's far more dramatic on the inside due to the use of a rummager, a chain mechanism that scrapes the bottom of the still for years on end. Given that the stills Glenfiddich uses are insanely expensive, they want to get as much life out of them as possible. The thicker the bottom, the longer they last. http://www.whisky.de...erts/copper.htm

That opens another question about the still you're making, Jimmi. The rummager is there to avoid the scorching of fallen solids on the flat bottom, in the case of direct fired wash still. Have you taken that problem into consideration?

Carl

[Jimmidaboot]

I'm new here and still learning. Conversations like these open the doors to more and more understanding of the nuances of the craft and I love it!

Pete, Here's something I learned while following Moe's suggestion to Google "The Scotch Pot Still". While it's true that there's degradation from the fire side of the flat plate stills that Glenfiddich uses, it's far more dramatic on the inside due to the use of a rummager, a chain mechanism that scrapes the bottom of the still for years on end. Given that the stills Glenfiddich uses are insanely expensive, they want to get as much life out of them as possible. The thicker the bottom, the longer they last. http://www.whisky.de...erts/copper.htm

That opens another question about the still you're making, Jimmi. The rummager is there to avoid the scorching of fallen solids on the flat bottom, in the case of direct fired wash still. Have you taken that problem into consideration?

Carl

I don't think my client has solids in the wash. I suppose if they did, they must have been able to deal with it in the Hoga still they've been using. Not sure, actually. But, as per their design, there is no rummager.