Choosing between a hybrid and simple pot stills

[pogriallais]

There's a variety of excellent stills on the market at the moment. The difficult part is choosing which one to go with.

For those of you who are making whiskey products, what has your experience been with your still(s)?

Some of the elements that I'm weighing up are:

• congener profile of spirits from respective still types
  
• still efficiency
  
• Capital expenditure
  

Simple pot stills for example will produce more robust flavours than a hybrid still- pros and cons with each.

Greater control over flavour and aromatics in a hybrid still.

Hybrid stills in theory are more efficient in terms of yield than simple pot stills.

Hybrid stills are, from my experience, cheaper to buy.

Simple pot stills are more traditional from a visitor perspective?? (maybe this shouldn't even be considered)

Are there any other considerations that I should take into account before choosing my still type? The still I will choose will be copper construction from boiler to condenser and will be heated directly/indirectly with steam. I'm planning to produce an Irish style whiskey.

[Lenny]

I've had good fun and been happy with the whiskey I make on a traditionally shaped copper pot still. It doesn't yield a huge hearts cut, but I love the flavors it spits out.

Hybrid stills are, from my experience, cheaper to buy.

I'm going to go out on a limb and sugest that nearly any simple potstill will be less of an investment than a hybrid/column still with bubble plates.

I'm planning to produce an Irish style whiskey.

Irish whiskey was historically made with a blend of 50%malted barley and 50% unmalted barley and tripple distilled through a pot still. I'm sure you could replicate the flavor profiles of an irish whiskey in a single or double distillation on a column still — it'd be interesting to go the traditional route though.

[tl5612]

Lead times might be important.

Definitely check with manufacturers now. Could range from 3 months to 18 months, depending on the company/your requirements.

[pogriallais]

Correct on the lead times- the biggest Scottish manufacturer has lead times towards the latter end of that scale. The other manufacturers' lead times are increasing all the time- no wonder with the amount of micros starting.

On the mash bill side of the equation I would be using malted and unmalted barley to replicate that particular style.

[TetonDistillery]

We have been really happy with our China manufactured stills at 1/3 the price.

If lead time is an issue with others, it wasn't really an issue for us. We ordered our 500 gallon pot still last December 2012 and it arrived less than 3 months later.

I cannot speak to the topic of whiskey yet since we have not made any.

But we are getting great vodka from the China stills. So the quality in manufacturing for the stills is certainly at the level to satisfying anything that a craft distillery needs to accomplish.

There are more pictures on our website if you want to see more details. But here are two good ones.

[tl5612]

Yes, I'm not even sure if the Scottish company is even taking orders they're so busy... or 18 months plus.

A company that you might have missed off your list of enquiry could be John Dore. They should be able to build something unique, and in a reasonable amount of time.

[Jedd Haas]

Teton,

Did you deal directly with the manufacturer? If so, can you provide their contact information?

[dkr02]

Teton- I'm interested in the info too- can you post here or PM me?

[TetonDistillery]

I will get the info.

[John McKee]

As always there are many and varied opinions about the type of stills used for various applications in beverage alcohol. However, there are some facts:

1. Makers Mark is made on column stills.
   
2. Buffalo Trace and all of their sub-brands are made on column stills.
   
3. Heaven Hill and all of their sub-brands are made on column stills.
   
4. Woodford Reserve; 1 barrel of every 8 muddled for a final batch is made in a pot still. All of the 7 other barrels are made in column stills over at Brown Foreman.
   
5. LDI is made on column stills.
   
6. 70%+ of all Irish whiskey is made on column stills.
   
7. 60%+ of all Scotch whiskey is made on column stills.
   

The only industries that typically use pot stills are microdistilleries, batch pharmaceuticals, and college undergrad labs.

Cheers.

McKee

[Artisan Still Design]

a hybrid still (batch column still) is a nice piece of kit for a microdistillery. you get the hands on traditionalism of the potstill, but with seberal plates, you can get better separation, making for a cleaner product with larger hearts cut.

there will always be a place for potstill in the Craft distillery world, just figure out if that's the method you want to use for your product.

[John D]

but with seberal plates, you can get better separation, making for a cleaner product with larger hearts cut.

there will always be a place for potstill in the Craft distillery world, just figure out if that's the method you want to use for your product.

I for one do not like a cleaner stripped out product. For Volume, speed and mostly profit I would think column. I have seen the hybrids work and tasted while running. There is a heads,hearts and tails but not much room in between. Maybe it was the way they where run don't know.

I am building my 50 gal copper pot so I can change out the head and try stuff. I really like having several ways to cook and mix. I really can't see doing it this was in any kind of large scale, special runs for sure.

Maybe one day If i can afford and hybrid i sure would buy it. I don't have one pot to cook in my house why just on for this wonderful liquid.

[PeteB]

"As always there are many and varied opinions about the type of stills used

• ------------------------------------------------
  
• 60%+ of all Scotch whiskey is made on column stills.
  The only industries that typically use pot stills are microdistilleries, batch pharmaceuticals, and college undergrad labs.
  Cheers.
  McKee "
  

John, that statement could well be correct if you are talking VOLUME

But, I am pretty sure I would be correct in saying 100% of Scotch Single Malt is made in traditional pot stills (Alembic, no column and plates)

[stevea]

Yes, SMS production is legally required to use a pot still.

Grants of UK operates some massive continuous column stills producing something close to NGS.

[Dehner Distillery]

Truth be told it is a no-brainer. If you have a pot still you can't make a great vodka in a time efficient manner. If you have a refraction still you can make anything from a good whiskey to a great vodka.

A refraction still is efficient and energy and time. We all know if you have a pot still you're going to have to run at two or three times to get to where you need to be why not just run it one time and your refraction still and be done with it.

That's just my two cents.

Joseph

Master Distiller

[MG Thermal Consulting]

I have one comment, and that is to VERY careful with any stainless product brought over from China.

More than one instance of stainless not being true, despite Chinese "paperwork".

You can demand metal be tested once it gets here, but all you can do then is not use it- try suing the Chinese.

[Natrat]

I agree with being careful, but having said that I have guided many people in buying GOOD Chinese equipment. Also GOOD American, Canadian, European, and South American equipment.

I have found that in many instances, problems arise from bad specifications or from lack of inspection. I would NEVER ship a piece of equipment without first conducting an examination. If you plan to spend many thousands of dollars on a piece of stainless, go and look at it first! Even if you commissioned it! A trip to China isn't the cheapest thing, but it's cheaper than wasting your hard earned cash.

I also recommend visiting a facility before having something built. Each time I neglected to do this, I was burned. Once I visited a keg manufacturing facility and saw that they were rolling the stainless on carbon steel beds (BIG no-no)

Having said that, I haven't seen an out of spec stainless alloy from China in almost a decade. Just contaminated welds or sheet, or improper weld filler material. And I see that just as much in domestic equipment. Negligence happens in every country...I have items from a "reputable" American company that compare extremely poorly to the Chinese equipment in the same room.

Also, if you fear losing money, I have found most companies overseas amenable to an escrow or trust account structure for payment.

Just be smart, businesspeople!

And just to be clear, I do not advocate buying equipment from Asia. I try to buy locally or in-state as much as possible, and I urge you all to do the same. But my clients often do not have the same mindset.

Good Luck

Nat

[Dehner Distillery]

I'm now starting to build distillery parts and stills so if anyone needs anything....