Can anyone recommend a supplier of small spirit tanks

[Neil]

Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone can recommend small spirit tanks that can be picked up and handled for storage and

weighing purposes. We're looking for 25 gallons more or less with handles on both sides.

Thank you

[Mike Fiore]

GW KENT 1 800 333 4288 hase stainless steel barrels up to 75 gallons and 151/2 gallons keg

[nick jones]

We're looking for 25 gallons more or less with handles on both sides.

I'd recommend 5 gal containers for moving by hand. Assuming 6.5 lbs/gal density for ethanol (vs 8 lbs/gal for H20):

5 x 6.5 = 32.5 lbs (very easy to move, pick up and pour, etc.)

25 x 6.5 = 162.5 lbs (hazardous to lift, even for two people)

Stainless soda kegs (thorouglhy cleaned and with all of the gaskets replaced) are cheap and resiliant 5 gal containers. Steve over at clear creek stores his spirit in 5 gal glass carboys (I break so many of the damn things that I'd be scared as hell to do the same).

I guess you could consider 1/2 bbl kegs (15.5 gals) but their openings are pretty small and the used 1/2 bbl keg market is pretty brutal right now. You might as well buy a new 1/2 bbl keg. Come to think of it, you might contact a keg manufacturer and see what kind of discount you could get on a keg with no stem.

That being said, I did notice this offer recently if you are willing to ditch your handle requirement and buy 100 units:

http://appleton.craigslist.org/for/3750022635.html

If I remember correctly, these kegs also have a bunghole, if that would be of interest to you for some reason.

Nick

[Panoscape]

Wholesale Glass Carboys = http://www.waterloocontainer.com/catalog/25/jugs-carboys/

[bluestar]

We find for single lift on occasion, and double lift when very full, you are best using SS olive oil fustis. We prefer the NSF rated kind, that have no seams, since the seams can trap flavors or cleaning fluid. We use the Sansone Europa model in 50L (about 13 gal) size, which is about 90 lbs when full with new make. For 6g, we use glass carboys.

[John McKee]

Wholesale Glass Carboys = http://www.waterlooc...5/jugs-carboys/

I'd try to stay away from glass carboys. Used steel soda kegs are a better idea from a safety perspective. Slippery floors and glass carboys don't go together well. Our lead distiller had an issue at his previous company with a glass carboy that led to 30+ stitches.

Cheers.

John

[Palmetto Coast]

Just to clarify, are you looking for a container for weighing for proofing for TTB reporting?

[mendodistilling]

Olive oil containers but they are 304ss not 316ss. You could maybe use these at www.glaciertanks.com they are for mashing beer but they are essentially the same use and have a nice fitting to draw from the container to another place. Pretty cheap for a container. Also, skolnik sells wine barrels for 450.00 roughly, I'm not sure if they make a 30 gallon but its worth asking, the guy who owns it or is their sales rep is pretty nice and helpful. They make racking holes w/ triclamp fittings, its a nice barrel.

[mendodistilling]

http://www.skolnik.com/wine_barrels.php

Lots of sizes.

[bluestar]

Olive oil containers but they are 304ss not 316ss.

304 should be fine for room temperature, short term storage, for spirits under 180 proof. Most of the GWKent stuff is 304 as well.

[Mike Fiore]

304 or 316? Ive been told over and over that 304 stainless steel is adequate for wine, beer, & spirits. I could not understand the reason why you would spend the money for 316 when 304 is perfectly adequate to use. 316 is more expensive and is not quite as common as 304. I asked colleges and wine makers from all over the world and everyone unanimously has told me that 304 is perfectly fine to use. 316 is mostly used in the pharmasutical industry the only people that disagree with this are the Canadians. Is it possible that Canada knows something that the rest of the world has found out yet? In that case can anybody educate me on what could happen if you store spirits in 304? Ive been doing this for seven or eight years now, and i dont want to keep on doing it if it is totally wrong. Thanks.

[mendodistilling]

I was told it leaves a metallic taste on higher proof alcohol after a few weeks. I was told not to leave it in 304 because of that, long term 316.

[Michaelangelo]

We find for single lift on occasion, and double lift when very full, you are best using SS olive oil fustis. We prefer the NSF rated kind, that have no seams, since the seams can trap flavors or cleaning fluid. We use the Sansone Europa model in 50L (about 13 gal) size, which is about 90 lbs when full with new make. For 6g, we use glass carboys.

Bluestar, where did you buy these Sansone Europa's? I have not been able to track down a dealer.

[mendodistilling]

prosperos carries them I believe.

[mendodistilling]

http://www.evoliveoil.com/

[Roger]

I have a friend who is a metalurgist in the aerospace industry, and he said that the issue is that 304 and 316 are because they are not specific formulas, they are in fact ranges. The general consensus is that Chinese SS is always n the low side of the formulas on the anti corrosive "more expensive" compounds, and thus Chinese 316 is closer to US 304.

[jeffw]

I did have a handle pop off one of those olive oil containers. Just saying...

[bluestar]

I did have a handle pop off one of those olive oil containers. Just saying...

Out of a dozen or so fustis, we had a handle pop off of one, and a handle leak on another. We got partial refund on one. Both problems were due to a defect in the spot welding of the handle onto the fusti. If I had access to a spot welder, I might be able to fix it.

We ran into one other issue with the Europa. The gasket originally was a translucent silicone, that seemed fine. Later, they changed to an off-white EPDM, which have a tendency to get loose and fall off of the lid into the fusti (splash!). The change was made when they became NSF certified, because the original gaskets were not NSF approved. I think the new gaskets are less elastic, and hence...

Still, these are nice units for the price. If only I could find a source for the original style of gaskets.

[mendodistilling]

edpm is alcohol resistant, im not sure silicone is. it may be convenient but not alcohol safe.

[pressure9pa]

For the 316 v 304 debate, if you go 304, try to make sure it is complaint to ASTM A666 or similar. That ensures the nickel content is sufficient.

[3TC]

edpm is alcohol resistant, im not sure silicone is. it may be convenient but not alcohol safe.

I found this when researching whether to use silicone or EDPM gaskets on my sanitary fittings:

"Silicone rubber has outstanding resistance to oil at high temperatures. Among common organic rubbers, nitrile rubber and chloroprene rubber have somewhat higher oil resistance at temperatures below 100°C, but at higher temperatures silicone rubber is superior. Silicone rubber also has excellent resistance to solvents and other chemicals. It is essentially unaffected by polar organic compounds (aniline, alcohol, etc.) or dilute acids or bases, with the increase in volume due to swelling in the range of only 10%–15%. Silicone rubber does swell in non-polar organic compounds like benzene, toluene and gasoline; but unlike most organic rubbers, it does not decompose or dissolve, and will return to its former state when the solvent is removed. Silicone rubber is, however, adversely affected by strong acids and bases, so it should not be used where it will come in contact with such chemicals.

Typically, the effects of solvents on silicone are evidenced by the swelling, softening and reduced strength of the rubber; the extent of these effects depends on the type of solvent involved."

This was found on page six of this report: http://www.silicone....df/rubber_e.pdf

[bluestar]

edpm is alcohol resistant, im not sure silicone is. it may be convenient but not alcohol safe.

It is alcohol resistant, even more so than EPDM at higher temperatures. EPDM will eventually embrittle at higher temperature exposure to alcohol (like in your column). But silicone can absorb flavors. EPDM less so.

EPDM is NSF and silicone is not because silicone generally (there are more expensive versions that are otherwise) can swell, and that means they can harbor stuff that can decay.

[bluestar]

http://www.evoliveoil.com/

Specifically, they carry the 50 liter at our request for ourselves and our distiller friends, since they are too large for most olive oil stores. They ship UPS. Cost is $130 plus shipping, which is the cheapest I have seen them in the US. I suggest you contact directly:

Leah Bradley

CFO

Veronica Foods

(510) 535-6833 x6844 (p)

(510) 532-2837 (f)

maindesk@evoliveoil.com

[3TC]

It is alcohol resistant, even more so than EPDM at higher temperatures. EPDM will eventually embrittle at higher temperature exposure to alcohol (like in your column). But silicone can absorb flavors. EPDM less so.

EPDM is NSF and silicone is not because silicone generally (there are more expensive versions that are otherwise) can swell, and that means they can harbor stuff that can decay.

Not sure that is entirely accurate about silicone not being NSF approved. Many silicone products carry the NSF rating. I've found that obtaining the rating is quite expensive and requires ongoing membership updates, so if the product is not likely to be used for food contact the manufacturer wouldn't bear the expense of obtaining it. But a simple google search will show that a lot of silicone products are rated.

[bluestar]

Not sure that is entirely accurate about silicone not being NSF approved. Many silicone products carry the NSF rating. I've found that obtaining the rating is quite expensive and requires ongoing membership updates, so if the product is not likely to be used for food contact the manufacturer wouldn't bear the expense of obtaining it. But a simple google search will show that a lot of silicone products are rated.

You might be correct. Let me say the following: the silicon seals used by the manufacturer were not NSF approved, so they switched to NSF-approved white EPDM. From the point of view from us buying it, same results.

But why they weren't NSF approved could be because the OEM source did not want to get it approved, the OEM did not want to get it approved, or it is a type silicone that would not get approval (there are silicone materials that do not meet NSF requirements, silicone is a broad category of polymers).