vodka2014 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Could anyone advise if carbon treating should results in loss of alcohol percentage. We have treated a few times and found that we have lost percentage. I am wandering if it is because our system is open and we are losing it to the atmosphere. Any advise on this would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisan Still Design Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 yes, you will get a small %abv drop when carbon filtering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dehner Distillery Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 You might have a temperature difference? You might not have de-dusted your carbon, so you might have carbon dust in suspension. That would make you solution thicker, making it seem like it lowered the proof with a hydrometer. Let it settle out, there will be a super black film on the bottom of your vessel. Active carbon works by ADsorbing (like static electricity, or an eletro-magnet). A sponge works by ABsorbing. Take care! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dehner Distillery Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 sorry left out a word... "a super thin black film on the bottom..............." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodka2014 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Great stuff, thank you for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhdunbar Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 The proof drop is why TTB requires that you cut to final bottling proof after you have completed the filtering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeSocial Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 On 5/16/2016 at 11:42 PM, dhdunbar said: The proof drop is why TTB requires that you cut to final bottling proof after you have completed the filtering. can you provide reference to this requirement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefish_dist Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I do experience a drop in abv, but that is to be expected since we put the carbon in wet and chase the alcohol with water. So I leave enough room for the proof to drop. The final bottle proof is set after filtration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhdunbar Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 2 hours ago, BeSocial said: can you provide reference to this requirement? Good call - insist on citations. From me, from TTB, from everyone. When it comes to regulation, advice that begins, "I think ..." should be suspect. Sometimes we have to figure out what is required by "reading between the lines," but these regulations were updated in 2011 and the basic requirements go back to 1980. TTB has had a lot of time to iron out the wrinkles of ambiguities. Sec. 19.353 Bottling tank gauge - When a distilled spirits product is to be bottled or packaged, the proprietor must gauge the product after any filtering, reduction, or other treatment, and before bottling or packaging begins. The gauge must be made at labeling or package marking proof, and the details of the gauge must be entered on the bottling and packaging record required in Sec. 19.599. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveflintstone Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 My understanding of that regulation is you must gauge your spirits after filtration, not cut to final proof after filtration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestar Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 7 hours ago, daveflintstone said: My understanding of that regulation is you must gauge your spirits after filtration, not cut to final proof after filtration. You can adjust proof after filtering, although you will likely want to use filtered water of as good or better quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveflintstone Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Can but not must, unless it's not right of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhdunbar Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Let's agree to this - the rule is you make the bottling gauge after the cut to bottling proof, i.e., when the spirits are ready to go into the bottle with no further changes to them, i.e., everything but bottling is completed. If you cut to bottling proof before filtration, then any loss of proof after filtration, is going to bring you out of compliance, because the spirits in the bottling tank must be at bottling proof. Because there is no tolerance, you are going to have to add spirits to the filtered product to get back to the bottling proof, then regauge. The tolerance is only for evaporation loss in the bottling process. That is a wonky distinction, because I do not think TTB would tumble to the wonky problem, if the bottled spirits were within tolerance, but it is nevertheless the requirement. The easy solution is to reduce after filtration, but TTB does not prohibit adding spirits to bring filtered spirits back up to bottling proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertS Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 If the carbon is fresh, it may be adsorbing some ethanol and water in appropriately sized pores. The carbon manual people like to pass around has a couple paragraphs on the mechanics of that, but I don't have any numbers to say how much ethanol would be adsorbed by any given activated carbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dehner Distillery Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Food for thought. When we filter vodka through our carbon we don't back wash with water. We leave the vodka in our filter system untill the next time we use it just so we don't have this problem. It is always 80 proof, Always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer Spring Distillers Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Dehner Distillery, Interesting. Any idea how many gallons of vodka you pass through how many pounds of carbon before you change out the carbon? Also - unrelated to this thread but something I've observed, and just started researching is the exothermic reaction that occurs when 190 proof is passed through [dry] activated carbon. Something about Gibbs Energy of Adsorption and the enthalpy of the ethanol. Has anyone gone down the rabbit hole on this to learn what is actually happening to the ethanol after that much energy is changing hands with the carbon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castaway Fiji Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 On 10/14/2021 at 7:42 AM, Hammer Spring said: Dehner Distillery, Interesting. Any idea how many gallons of vodka you pass through how many pounds of carbon before you change out the carbon? Also - unrelated to this thread but something I've observed, and just started researching is the exothermic reaction that occurs when 190 proof is passed through [dry] activated carbon. Something about Gibbs Energy of Adsorption and the enthalpy of the ethanol. Has anyone gone down the rabbit hole on this to learn what is actually happening to the ethanol after that much energy is changing hands with the carbon? We had an array of 12ft tall carbon columns that were apparently designed for filtering vodka and when we first introduced the spirit they became so hot you almost couldnt touch them , same thing in just a bottle, but way out of my chemical league, it turned out to be completely useless As for carbon depending on what you use it has a massive capacity something like an area of 32000sqf in one gram. We have used various methods and our current method is fairly agricultural but produces a great finish, it is not under pressure and we change out the carbon as it becomes less effective so far we are at around 25,0000 litres per 25 kgs of carbon, but I would imagine a lot depends on your method. Has anyone used any of the Pall carbon systems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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