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  2. Hey Blockader, Thanks for replying to my poorly worded post. Let me take another shot. I have a building which houses a malt plant. I have enough space to add a distillery. The malt plant is quite secure and if we put the distillery into the malt plant the spirits would also be secure. So here's my question: What separation will I have to have to make TTB happy? I have visited several distilleries and there is no separation between the distilling equipment the aging and the finished goods. Therefore I assume that the entire DSP is bonded area. If this is the case, then declaring the entire malt house as bonded area would seem to be the best way to satisfy the TTB requirements. I do understand that TTB does not regulate malt. I appreciate any comments
  3. Today
  4. You can have a column that is too large for a still boiler, but the column would have to be really large. A 16" diameter 2 plate bubble plate column will work fine on a 65 gallon still running low wines and it will do the job really fast if you have enough heat transfer going on. That little 15.5 gallon keg will work great with a 3" pot still column with copper packing and no dephlegmator, to do brandy, or whiskey in 2 runs. The output for the stripping run should be around 25%. Its not safe to put high proof low wines in a direct fire still. On the spirit run, you will be able to hit 60% or a little better. If you have enough heat, each run will take around 3 hrs, once operating temp is reached. If you want higher proofs, you will need a reflux column with deflegmater. So as to have a faster run time at higher proofs, I would go with a 4" bubble plate column: With 10% mash, she will put out 85% no problem, and with a 12 gallon charge you can do a 170 proof run in around 3 hrs. If you want 190 proof and above, you could add 48" of 4" packed column along with the bubble plate column. 2 bubble plates on the bottom then the 4" raschig ring packed section and then 2 bubble plates on top with the correctly sized dephlegmator. We have built several 10 and 20 gallon R&D vodka stills as described above, with 10 or 20 gallon jacketed boilers with our electric Baine Marie heating systems. The vodka columns are modular on ours, so that you can remove the 4" packed section and just run 4 plates, or you can remove all of the plates from the inside and run as a pot still.. There is an extension tube for the final condenser when the still; is in Vodka mode. Here is one our very versatile little 45 gallon R&D stills that can be configured several different ways. gallonStill.htm It has very fast run times with our 6" columns. You will need a A Sanitary tri clamp reducer to connect your column to your keg. A 2" tri clamp ferrule with a silicone gasket will clamp directly to the connection on top of the keg. The keg connection is where the keg is tapped, so you will need to pull the guts out of the keg ferrule. The keg ferrule is of a different design than a tri clamp ferrule, but they are close enough, so that they will work together fine and they will seal with a food grade silicone gasket. If your column is a 4" reflux column, to be safe the column should have extra support. With the keg, the Vodka configuration will be well over 10' tall and very top heavy empty. You will need guide wires to support the column. Beer kegs will work but cleaning them sucks. The only way to scrub the inside is with a carboy brush through that tiny hole. If you have to use it then you should cut out the ferrule on top and weld in a 6" tri clamp ferrule so that you can clean the thing properly. I have all of the parts that you need to build your own still on all 3 of these web sites. Good luck and have fun.
  5. Price lowered to $29,900. For ADI followers.
  6. You shouldn't need the malting operations areas to be part of the bonded portion of the DSP. The TTB does not regulate malt production, which is why you won't find anything from them. If you are doing floor malting than you could use a separate building (or part of the main building) and not designate it as bonded area in your permit application. I believe you COULD include it in your bonded area if you really want to though. Or put up a separation and not include it.
  7. *Edit: I stand corrected, whiskey systems does offer a $150 entry level. Have yet to inquire about what it includes, happy to report my findings back. I'm currently a month into Hoochware. We're a winery that just added a DSP. I handled IT at the winery, and after about 10 years of growth and the "software battles" to meet it, I can say that the distilling industry looks like the wine industry from about 5-10 years ago: Limited options; expensive; programs with "ideal feature sets" are very enterprise/ERP focused/priced; most options do a lot of what you may need - and quite a bit of what you don't; most options are about 10 years behind the rest of the world in the areas of UI/framework. I want a piece of software which is cloud-based, regularly developed/updated, and packaged in tiers which allow me to choose the level of feature sets that I require (and skip those that I don't). While some options are tier based, it's a far cry from feasible or accurately targeting the features I need. Granted, I'm unique in that: we're based in our wine cellar so I don't need all the fermentation tracking; we're 100% grape-based, and 99% of "grain operations management" tools are irrelevant; targeting 2-5 barrels/year of aged product in the next few years, "barrel management" is completely unnecessary;we're a control state so my startup phase can only take advantage of limited "sales force" features and account management since I primarily am only able to sell to a single wholesale account at first. Having said all that, I've looked at the following table, and Hoochware is the only one with a "lower price" and "bigger feature set" which touches on the cloud-based, modern ui, and constantly updated highlights that I'm seeking. Summary: no software is ever a silver bullet in any industry, and is always going to cost more than you want to pay. But for the right system, I'll pay what I need to - it's not ALL about the price, because like folks have noted, you can't always just put a price on your time. At this stage, the options are extremely limited and nothing is "totally" right...but from my experience thus far, I've got high hopes for Hoochware and it's working out great right now. Hope this helps. Company Website Target Likely Monthly DRAMS Enterprise Quote HOOCHWARE 199, no contract, 3 months free trial, no setup/termination fee ShipComplaint 500 Foundations by American Spirits Exchange 500 Whiskey Systems every level through ERP $150-$350 DistilliTrak Low Level $75 for lifetime Mountain Moonshine ABS Anybody $175 one time Stillhouse 375 Ospirits (orchestratred spirits) ERP 650
  8. Really though, you've got to make some massively boneheaded move for a column not to work, unless hitting azeo in a small package is your goal (this gets difficult). 2" pipe, fill it with bolts, screws, nuts, rusty nails and keys. It'll work.
  9. One part of your question which I did not address is whether it is detrimental to have a column that has a larger diameter than necessary. Unfortunately columns that are larger in diameter than necessary do not work as well as correctly designed columns. Depending on the type of column, there will be a narrower or wider range of flows over which it works well. With packed columns if they are too large the liquid will not wet all the packing and there will be zones where the vapor can rise up through the packing without contacting the liquid at all. WIth sieve (perforated plate) columns a minimum vapor velocity is required to prevent the liquid from weeping through the holes. A small amount of weeping does not affect the efficiency, but too much will cause the plates to run dry and in larger columns can lead to mechanical problems like vibration. Correctly designed bubble cap trays will not weep and these columns have the widest range of capacity. But even these trays will fall off in efficiency if they are grossly oversized because the intensity of the bubbling will decrease. This reduces the mixing and the vapor-liquid contact - reducing the separating efficiency of the column. Of course, for all types of columns a detrimental impact of over sizing is the cost of the column. The quantity of liquid held up on each tray also gets to be significant with very large columns and this can affect the recovery of alcohol in batch systems, but is not really a problem for continuous columns.
  10. Yesterday
  11. 5.11 MEANING OF TERMS "Produced at- As used in §§5.22 and 5.52 in conjunction with specific degrees of proof to describe the standards of identity, means the composite proof of the spirits after completion of distillation and before reduction in proof."
  12. Please forward your contact info . Although I have a DSp in PA already, I am starting a new venture and have several brand clients who will be interested in connecting with you Thanks! Reply to please--I dont check the forum message so please go directly through that email cheers
  13. Thank you @bluestar For future reference, do you recall which part/where in the CFR I can review that verbiage? I must be missing it as I keep scanning through, haven't had time recently for another thorough "top to bottom" re-read of it :/
  14. We are building a malt plant and wish to have a distillery in the same building. Can the malt plant be part of the bonded area? We will be making all malt whiskey. I have searched the TTB site and there is nothing that seems to address this issue.
  15. Troy A Z, Talk to Lawrence Taylor at He can sell you a column for your keg.
  16. Welcome to the forum. I hope I can help you in the future. Robert.
  17. We use Whiskey Systems for both of our distilleries. Super product and always on the forefront of innovation and added features. Additionally, the implementation was a huge asset to us, with an added emphasis put on reviewing and updating our internal distillery best practices procedures. Buy it. Cheers. John
  18. There are some rules of thumb on colum diameter vs output and heat required. IMHO for a column still the base size is effectively irrelevant other than can it input enough heat and product. Think continuous still as one extreme. I think it's more matching a batch size to output rate so that sill runs happen in a reasonable amount of time. It would be hard to run 100 gallons of wash through a 2" column, but that would be a shift with a 6" column. A 2" colum will do 1-2l per hr, 4" about 1 gallon, 6" 2 gallon. That is provided there is enough input of heat and alcohol. Where this falls apart is if you try and run a 6" column on a 1/2 barrel boiler. From wash/wort there is hardly enough alcohol to load the still. Yet from low wines it will run fine. If you really want to discuss still design I would check out
  20. What he said. And it's not just a pure function of diameter, area, and vapor speed. The type of column will also have an impact. For example, dual-flow perforated plates are going to have a very different set of operating conditions than bubble caps, which will be different from a packed column. Not only that, but each of these subtypes of column are going to have numerous variations that impact operating parameters, for example, the % open area on a dual flow tray, or the type of packing in the packed column. Not to mention that theory will only get you into the ballpark, from there it's based on practical operating experience, as the real world is kind of stubborn in the fact that it doesn't always adhere to theory. I always thought this was a pretty approachable read: DESIGN GUIDELINES - distillation column - Rev 04 web.pdf
  21. This subject was discussed in Unfortunately that thread got a bit messy with some irrelevant side-issues causing a bit of bickering and hair-splitting. Basically the situation is that the diameter of the column and the size of the pot are determined by different factors, so there is no fixed ratio between them. The column diameter is mainly determined by the vapor velocity up the column. In a small R&D column of around 2" diameter the vapor velocity will be in the region of 6 to 10 inches per second, but on a large vodka column of say 10 ft diameter you can get vapor velocities of 6 to 10 feet per second. So the column diameter is determined by the rate at which you want to run. In a pot still the pot size is determined by the heating method and the size of the batch you are working with. Let us imagine your fermenters produce 100 gallons per batch. You will probably want a pot of around 150 gallons to be able to boil this safely. If you want to process this in 12 hours you will need a column roughly double the diameter (4 x the area) than if you want to process it in 48 hours. And of course you need to put heat into the pot at 4x the rate for the 12 hour scenario. Distillers generally want to be able to process a batch in 8 to 12 hours (one shift) so it turns out that in practice there is an approximately consistent ratio between the pot size and the column diameter (or more correctly the column cross sectional area) but this is a coincidence - as explained above there are different drivers in determining the pot and column sizes.
  22. Some tanks sold, We still have alot of tanks left! Call or text if interested!
  23. Hey all, I am new here and being a Mechanical Designer I am curious about some of the design features of a still. So on a column still, is there any type of formula or rule of thumb to go by with the diameter of the column in relation to the diameter of the base/pot? I have read were people looking for an R&D still recommend using a 1/2 barrel (beer) and a 2" pipe for a column. I have seen larger stills with what look like 8" columns. Would it be detrimental to the over all process if you were to put too large of diameter on a smaller base? Thanks for any info., I am kind of geeking out on the whole distillation process.
  24. It's not worthwhile to make your own bottle.
  25. Last week
  26. SanTan Brewing Company and Sacred Stave Craft Distilling is in need of a distilling assistant. Applicants should meet the following requirements. Knowledge of the brewing and distilling process, hands on experience and schooling are a bonus Be at least 21 years old Able to lift up to 100# repeatedly Able to stand for long periods of time Have a strong attention to details Able to multi-task Available to work nights Forklift certified is a plus Good communication skills and a passion for what you do! Pay is hourly DOE
  27. 17 - 3.5 brix is 79% apparent attenuation. ec 1118 is specd at 75% average, so yay?
  28. Hi. Is the second run off a regular pot still equivalent to a first run using a Thumper (in terms of the taste and ethanol concentration achieved)? In other words, can using a Thumper take the place of that second run? Thank you in advance of your reply. J. Pepper.
  29. I'm just about to get started in the next couple of months here in PA. I can't speak to NJ, but I think this is a good time to start a limited distillery in PA. Act 39 and 166 have made it easier to interconnect your products with limited wineries and breweries in PA. At least where I am, it feels more like a cooperative than a competitive market. The more locally made product that's available draws in more people, which is good for everyone. My situation is not typical to most starting up, but if you have any PA specific questions I could share my own personal experience navigating. Best of luck.
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