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Southernhighlander

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Everything posted by Southernhighlander

  1. Southernhighlander

    Ex Requirements

    The safety codes are actually pretty strait forward. My experience tells me that 99.333% of the time, my interpretation of the code gets my equipment through all of the customers required inspections the first time. Even though it is not 100% that is a pretty good consensus. Don't you think? Also keep in mind that only .667% (around 1 in every 150) of ourstills has failed the first inspection. None have failed their 2nd electrical and or safety inspections.
  2. Southernhighlander

    Ex Requirements

    Our PID electric heating systems meet all C1 D2 requirements in the US. Our steam stills meet all C1 D1 requirements in the US. C1D2 is much less expensive than C1D1 because NEMA 4 enclosure can be used for none arcing electrical components. My business emerald gold sells laboratory equipment and we build it to meet C!D2 and C1D1 requirements. Also we will be offering complete computer automation as an option for our Baine marie electric stills within the next couple of weeks. These systems meet all C1D2 and C1D1 requirements and are are UL listed and certified. Our new agitator motors are UL listed US made Baldor listed for C1D1. Of course we will still be selling our PID electric heating systems. Everywhere I look I see CE listed Chinese and European made agitator motors on stills and other distilling equipment. Usually the inspectors let them pass but not allways. Even with all of the above we still have the best prices in the industry apples to apples. Thank you.
  3. Southernhighlander

    Bloody Butcher Red Corn

    Thanks for the info Adam, especially about malting. I think that it is really neat that you are using these heirloom varieties.
  4. Southernhighlander

    Bloody Butcher Red Corn

    I have a question? Traditionally Hickory King and Hickory Cane Corn were the only varieties of corn used in the southern appalachians for making bourbon and whiskey. These varieties were used by Jack Daniels and then Lem Motlow switched to yellow corn because of the price. Though my family grew some indian corn and yellow corn for other uses they and the other families on the TN side and the NC side of the Smokies only used Hickory King and Hickory Cane Corn for their whiskey My grandfather always said that yellow corn and especially Indian Corn did not make as good a whiskey as Hickory Cane or Hickory King. Have you ever tried those traditional whiskey varieties. Of course due to the 13' tall stalks it does not grow well in some areas. Here is something else that is interesting. My grandfather said that you can't malt yellow corn. It will always mold. He said that hickory king and or hickory cane were the only types of corn that malted well but i have never talked to a malting house that has ever used them.
  5. Southernhighlander

    Bennett Stills

    Thanks Ric, I looked up Frilli.IDK I had never heard of them, but they have been around for 100 years.
  6. Southernhighlander

    Anyone have experience w/ Affordable Distillery Equipment LLC??

    County seat, It's true that some manufacturers hesitate to do larger electric baine marie systems. We on the other hand do not. As long as you have enough amps to push enough BTUs to heat the vessel in a reasonable amount of time we, will build you an electrically fired still and or a mash cooker as large as you like. We have done several 250 and 300 gallon electric baine marie stills and two 500 gallon ones. The heat up times for them are the same as our smaller electric stills because the heating system produces the same number of BTUs per gallon as the smaller ones. We actually have electric over steam Baine Maries that utilize our open system pressurization module technology to produce 8 psi steam in the jacket which gives much faster run times than water or oil bath stills. We have had PID set point temp control for these stills for years now along with optional thermostatic valves to mechanically automate condenser and dephlegmator cooling as well as bubble plate column control. Within the next 3 or 4 weeks we are adding the option of complete computer automation for our baine maries. Our automated control systems are UL listed for class 1 div 2 or even class 1 div 1 if that is what you desire. UL listed prototypes of our automated distilling systems are in operation at a distillery here in MO. These automated control systems control all aspects of the distilling process. We will post more about this in the future. Of course we will keep selling our less expensive PID control systems that are built from all UL listed components and meet the NEC 409 requirements for control panels. What is the phase and voltage of your electrical system? How many amps is your main disconnect panel? what is your current amp draw during the operation of your distillery?
  7. Southernhighlander

    Anyone have experience w/ Affordable Distillery Equipment LLC??

    Jessica, email me paul@distillery-equipment.com and I will get right back to you with a quote Thanks
  8. Southernhighlander

    Distilling Area Classification?

    We have stills in around 300 distilleries. All of those distilleries except for 1 had the area around the still classified as a Class I Div II hazardous environment or some lesser classification or no classification. My electric baine marie stills are good for a Class I Div II hazardous environment. The powers that be in a particular state just decided that the area around one of my baine marie stills should be class I div I. My steam stills are good for a class 1 div 1 but not my baine marie stills. I have stills in several distilleries in that same state that are just like this one and the areas around all of those stills were classified as class I div II Has anyone else ever had their distilling area or the area around their still classified as a class I div I hazardous environment? Thanks for any help anyone can give.
  9. Southernhighlander

    Distilling Area Classification?

    In the situation were it is not required but adds little cost we go with components with the higher safety factor. By the end of next year we will go beyond just having our panels certified UL 509. By the end of next year the models that are baine marie stills now, will have a their own UL device listings. I know of no other vendors who sell stills with a complete UL device listing and asme rating for the entire still, that are steam fired by their own self contained heating system. No electrical inspector can fail one of them and our stills fired by low pressure steam are good for c1d1 already.
  10. Southernhighlander

    Distilling Area Classification?

    In my drawing the 5' area is c1d2 and that is correct. What they did to you went above and beyond the code requirements, but of course they can do that, however a few get away with way less than what the codes require. I had one customer who owned the wells where his city got its water. He had a huge winery there already and he purchased some large distilling equipment from us including the low pressure steam boiler. I told him that everything would pass inspection and he said we don't have to worry about that. There won't be any inspections, and there weren't any. Here where I am no electrical or plumbing or building inspections are required and there are other places like that.
  11. Southernhighlander

    Distilling Area Classification?

    All of our temp probe housings are good for class one div one on all of our stills as well.
  12. Southernhighlander

    Distilling Area Classification?

    That sucks. Did they make the whole distilling area C1D1?. If so they went way above and beyond the requirements. My steam stills are good for class 1 division 1, as are our ethanol pumps, cip pumps and most of those of our competitors are not. We can build our baine marie stills so that they are good for class 1 div 1 but the customer had just as well buy a low pressure steam boiler from us, in that situation. Light switch enclosures and EX motors aren't that bad, but when you go to buy large NEMA7 enclosures, wahoo.
  13. Southernhighlander

    Distilling Area Classification?

    You are correct concenin the codes and the drain. We could not find anything either. Basically, from what the customer has told me, the engineer beleives that since the interior of the still must be considered div 1 then the area around the drain valve must be div1 as well because it connects to the interior of the pot like the manway. Of course that defies common sense because there is no way that vapor can come out of the drain under normal operation or even under abnormal operation.
  14. Southernhighlander

    Distilling Area Classification?

    Thatch, They did declare the area around the manway as class 1 div 1 but that does not cause me any problems because the agitator motor is for class 1 div 1 and that 3' area does not extend to cover any of the other parts of the electrical system . I have had other inspectors do the same and that area has never extended to cover any of the heating system components, so I have no issues with that. The problem is, as I stated in a post above, that the engineer classified the area 3' around the still pot's drain as a class 1 division 1 hazardous environment. Out of 287 stills in operation that has never happened before and it is incorrect according to the codes. The 3' area around the drain covers portions of the stills electric heating system which is good for class 1 div2 but not class 1 div 1. Upgrading the enclosures and conduit to class 1 div 1 will be very expensive. However you are correct in that these people are the boss and there is nothing to do but meet whatever requirements that they stipulate whether fair or unfair. We have several options, the first of which is to simply upgrade the heating system to class 1 div 1 but if that is too expensive I could buy the customers heating system back and simply change the still over to steam and the customer fires it with a small inexpensive low pressure steam boiler that sits outside of the hazardous areas. It is very frustrating and especially for the customer, but we will make it work out one way or another.
  15. Southernhighlander

    Bennett Stills

    I've never heard of them but there are new people getting into the equipment business all of the time now.
  16. Southernhighlander

    Distilling Area Classification?

    Your statement is correct but there is the worry of having that classification forced on you, in areas that should be classified as class 1 div 2. I'm going to see if I can get my customer to come on and tell his part of the story.
  17. Southernhighlander

    Distilling Area Classification?

    I converted the drawing to a jpg and it is below. We are currently working on an updated one that has a lot more info. I will post it when completed. For my liability I must say that if anyone uses this info they do so at their own risk.
  18. Southernhighlander

    Distilling Area Classification?

    Adam, We sent information to the customer to give to the civil engineer explaining that under normal operating conditions hazardous vapors are not present and that vapors are only present under abnormal operating condition. We explained about the 2 different classifications, class 1 div 1 covering areas where vapor is always present and class 1 div 2 covering areas where vapor is only present during abnormal operation. This all started when an electrical inspector called me while he was doing the inspection. He asked me what the classification was around the still and I said that except for the area around the parrot and the interior of the still, it was class 1 div 2 and I explained the size of that area. He then asked me where I got my info and I said that my employees and I had researched it very thoroughly and that our stills had passed all required inspections at almost 300 distilleries in the US, ( it turned out that including at least 3 in his own state). He asked me if I or anyone on my staff was a licensed engineer and I said no. He said that since I and no one on my staff was a degreed licensed engineer we could not make that evaluation. He said that the electrical heating system on the still was good for class 1 div 2 but he believed that the area around the still should be class 1 div 1 and that only the agitator was good for that. . He said that my customer would have to pay for an engineer to come out and give his recommendation and if I remember correctly the electrical inspectors decided who the engineer should be. I am always very nice and as helpful as possible to electrical inspectors. I'm not really sure why this one did what he did. I did email the electrical inspector lots of safety info after the above conversation. Below is a drawing that we started sending to customers fairly recently. We also sent it to the electrical inspector and the customer gave it to the civil engineer. We actually have a vent on our parrots that vents the ethanol vapor to the outside of the building, if the condenser goes down, so I'm not absolutely sure that the class1 div1 should be around it, but better safe than sorry and it does not affect any of our electrical components because they are all in the class 1 div 2 areas. Class 1 Division 1 Drawing-Layout1.pdf
  19. Southernhighlander

    ELI5: The Birectifier

    Please click on the link below to see the results of a google search, "CO2 to ethanol". https://www.google.com/search?q=ethonal+from+co2&rlz=1C1ASUC_enUS662US662&oq=ethonal+from+co2&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i59.12257j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
  20. In that case we should all send them our comments concerning the ongoing use of smaller barrels. I am going to email them now. I suggest that everyone else does the same.
  21. Brian, I think that you are misinterpreting the above. I think that you have it backwards. Currently the definition of an oak barrel (new oak container) is a "cylindrical oak drum of approximately 50 gallons capacity used to age bulk spirits", but they are seeking comments on whether small round and non cylindrical barrels should also be considered oak barrels because currently they are not. Looks to me like they are trying to accommodate craft distillers with the possibility of these changes.
  22. Southernhighlander

    On Grain or Off Grain

    No straining or anything is necessary for hogs. Hogs actually get nutrients from the liquid as well as the solids. My dad and grandfather raised hogs to feed the spent mash from their moonshine operations. Hogs love it and getting a little buzz from the residual ethanol seems to make them happy. However hogs should not be fed hot mash in cold weather. The hog farmer should pick up the mash everyday in warm weather so that the mash does not start to rot. Cattle are different because their digestive systems are different. Cattle can be fed mash with the liquid in if it is fresh however most cattlemen just want to feed the grain. Row crop farmers put it in their manure spreaders and spread it a fertilizer. I would not sell it to cattle farmers because of the hassle of separating out the liquid. i would either sell to hog farmers or give it to row crop farmers. Find a farmer that will buy it. Get some used plastic totes. When the farmer picks up, unload the empty tote or totes and load up full ones. It's that simple. Small hog farmers are best.
  23. Southernhighlander

    On Grain or Off Grain

    On the grain is much easier with corn based mashes and you get more ethanol. Off the grain is best for barley based mashes because barley sparges well. I would sell my spent mash to a hog farmer. If there are no hog farmers I would give it to a row crop farmer for use as fertilizer. For cattle the grain needs to have been separated from the liquid. All of the protein is left in after distillation so the feed value is high enough that they will normally will pay for it.
  24. Southernhighlander

    Kothe 1800l Mash and 600l still Steam pressure

    Another good reason to check with the manufacturer.
  25. Southernhighlander

    Kothe 1800l Mash and 600l still Steam pressure

    That is likely, but since it was sold as baine marie it may only be good for 6 psi steam like some of my baine marie stills are. If it is only good for 6psi then 14 psi may bust a seam. I would only run what the manufacturer recommends. Typically that would be 14.7 psi max, but you never know. Better safe than sorry. There probably is some leeway. We test my stills that operate at 6 PSI at 18 psi and our 14.7 psi stills are hydrotested at 44 psi. Of course the requirement is that they be tested at 2x the rated pressure, so if the Kothe is only good for 6psi it may blow at 14 psi. If you need a section VIII pressure relief valve for the jacket we have them in the correct lbs of steam per hr for your still jacket. The law requires the section VIII safety valve. We have them in 7 psi and 15 psi. Also and this is extremely important, make sure that you have a vacuum relief valve on the jacket or it may implode on you when it cools. If you need a vacuum relief valve we have them as well, in the correct size. I had a customer a few years ago that decided that his mash tun did not need the vacuum relief valve that I supplied for his inner pot and he imploded his 600 gallon mash tun. The wall was 1/4" thick 304 stainless. My safety manual says that the inner pot of my mash tuns must be vented when they are in operation and if not vented the manway must be open. He closed the manway but did not latch it, then started the crash cooling. Vacuum sucked the manway tight on the gasket then a little while later wahoo.
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