Broken Anvil Distilleries Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 39 minutes ago, Georgeous said: does your MT have two jackets cooling and heating? Just a single jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HedgeBird Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 23 hours ago, Georgeous said: I have a similar trap to the one in this photo, and it is installed in what seems to be the opposite direction, with the drain plug thing pointing towards the inlet side... I also have this small trap installed on a 150 gallon still and have a much larger trap on my bigger still thats still not as large as yours. Are you 100% sure that thing is not backwards? Is it possible its undersized for this jacket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffw Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Is your return line hot? It is possible that the float valve in the steam trap got bumped out of place or something. Try running it without the steam trap (and no return) for a bit. Had a brief issue when upgrading equipment, took trap apart, put back together, and then it worked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeous Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, jeffw said: Is your return line hot? It is possible that the float valve in the steam trap got bumped out of place or something. Try running it without the steam trap (and no return) for a bit. Had a brief issue when upgrading equipment, took trap apart, put back together, and then it worked... yes return line is hot, however it wont get hotter than i need it to get only 126°F. We are trying now to run without the trap to see if that heats it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeous Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 All traps have been opened and cleaned one was very dirty yes the plug is towards the back see photo attached Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeous Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 Okay so we swapped the Trap with the still tried heating up didn't do shit so now we removed the plug from the steam trap behind the mash tun and you can stay a steady flow of steam coming out of it been 30 minutes but no real noticeable rise yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 duplicate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I don't believe taking the bottom off the stream trap will tell you much of anything because if there is a restriction on the return line, you have taken it out of the loop by opening the trap. I can't tell for sure but it appears that your condensate holding tank may be hooked direct to an outside water source. If so, is this tank open to the atmosphere, or is it a pressurized tank wherein the pressure would be pushing back your "gravity feed" condensate return, and not allow the system to freely flow in a complete cycle. Even if this is an open system, is the tall pipe that comes out of the holding/return tank so tall that it is full of water that is building a head pressure that would restrict the flow from the "gravity" system as it would be putting pressure on the condensate return ? And last but not least, i see that you have steam coming out of your "open trap" but do you have "liquid" coming out of the return, if it is closed back up ? I.e. if the float is not working, it would just be a continuous flow of steam, and not be held long enough for sufficient Delta-T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeous Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 Here is what i dont get, when we opened the steam trap for the still which is functioning fine and further away from the boiler than the mash tun lots of water came out. When we open the steam trap from the MT only steam came out. Also we swapped the two steam traps and still continues to function just fine. MT still not heating up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffw Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Is it possible they didn't put baffling in the steam jacket? Also, have the steam input at the bottom seems very strange. I would expect you get hot water coming out when by passing the trap, not steam (at least until you tank is at higher temp). The jacket should knock the steam down to liquid...Perhaps it is flowing in and back out with a very short path...if this is the case though, I don't really have a solution other than switching to direct steam injection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 how big is the steam pipe going into the mash tun ? 2" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeous Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, Roger said: how big is the steam pipe going into the mash tun ? 2" ? 1" inlet and outlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeous Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 24 minutes ago, jeffw said: Is it possible they didn't put baffling in the steam jacket? Also, have the steam input at the bottom seems very strange. I would expect you get hot water coming out when by passing the trap, not steam (at least until you tank is at higher temp). The jacket should knock the steam down to liquid...Perhaps it is flowing in and back out with a very short path...if this is the case though, I don't really have a solution other than switching to direct steam injection. what is a baffling? i dont know how that works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 oh stop. you are trying to heat up 600# of mash with a 1" inlet of low pressure ?? Anyone out there doing this ?? I would think it would require a minimum of 2-3" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silk City Distillers Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I also have a similar style trap (Armstrong) - it does look curiously backwards. What’s the make and model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lenerz Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Silly question, is that valve on the condensate return line, midway up the tank open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Paul - What size inlet on a 600gal mash tun with an atmospheric boiler is appropriate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeous Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 19 minutes ago, Roger said: oh stop. you are trying to heat up 600# of mash with a 1" inlet of low pressure ?? Anyone out there doing this ?? I would think it would require a minimum of 2-3" . i have the same size inlet on my 600 gallon still and it heats up fine. but now we are seeing some issues in pattern of heat. see attached photos showing heat map. the whole bottom gets hot but walking around MT Heat map is not consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeous Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, Silk City Distillers said: I also have a similar style trap (Armstrong) - it does look curiously backwards. What’s the make and model? Chinese, came with the still. But dont think it is the problem. i swapped it with the one on the still which is working fine and same results; nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeous Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, Tom Lenerz said: Silly question, is that valve on the condensate return line, midway up the tank open? yes all valves are open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 There is a definite difference between heating up a still full of non-viscous fermented beer, vs the same amount of corn mash. A grain mash is almost an insulator, and absorbs an incredible amount of heat from the mash tun wall. Of course the thinner the mash, the less of an insulating barrier, but you will have to get high enough to activate your A & B enzymes (at least the A) to start thinning it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silk City Distillers Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Really think that trap is backwards.. Bucket traps haven't changed in decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernhighlander Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 40 minutes ago, Roger said: Paul - What size inlet on a 600gal mash tun with an atmospheric boiler is appropriate ? It should be at least 2" but I think ours is 2.5" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Thanks Paul . I can't imagine a 1" low pressure flow heating up 1000# of thick mash. Chinese engineering ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeous Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 17 minutes ago, Silk City Distillers said: Really think that trap is backwards.. Bucket traps haven't changed in decades. No it's not look at the arrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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