Lenny

Or could it be considered vodka? — but instead goes with the Everclear brand of neutral grain spirit which carry's a whole lot more [low brow] cache by being labeled "grain alcohol" vs. Vodka? Not trying to delve any deeper into spirit classifications (I've got my hands full with "light whiskey" right now) so I won't offer opinion on the vodka thing, but I've always wondered about that Everclear nonsense, and taken issue with it's destruction of the term "grain". I can't mention grain whiskey around the average person without catching looks of disgust. One way or another, that is some powerful branding on Everclear's part.

You're probably not going to find a blanket study that will attest to the non-issue of fumes/vapors/etc for your facility, regardless of the limited usage or still capacity. I'm not saying this to beat down your hopes of things being resolved quickly and easily — I pushed very hard to find such documents that would prove to local inspectors that my operation was not going to produce any "vapors" to be concerned with. In the end, most inspectors (certainly my local inspectors) are not going to give you a pass based on a document that does not apply to your exact production possess. Maybe I'm wrong though — this was just MY experience and I feel like I learned a lot. I'm sure others have had it easier and others have had it much harder. I can share some material that was prepared for me by both an architect and an engineer, but they are specific to my MAQs, building, storage intentions, Btu usage, and current ventilation. Most importantly to building officials, these documents have been stamped and signed by industry professionals and that frees the inspectors of liability. Feel free to shoot me an email (len@deerhammer.com) or call (7199667611) and I can talk to you more about this stuff.

Funny... I'm smack in the middle of dealing with this same issue. What I've learned in all the dealings with fire/building inspectors, architects, and engineers is that every space is different and requires it's own prescribed ventilation solution based on a number of variables. Are there enough fumes to be concerned... that sort of depends on your MAQ (maximum allowable quantity) of distillate stored in open containers - as well as any natural gas powered appliances in your space. Chances are, you will never have an issue with fumes from spirit in storage or during production, BUT, I strongly recommend that you seek out an architect or engineer to do a lower flammable limit calculation for your facility and then prescribe a ventilation solution (if needed). It can save you a ton of headache down the road and provide the piece of mind to know that your operating within a safe facility. If you have any other questions or need a recommendation on an architect or engineer that is familiar with this stuff, feel free to shoot me a pm.

I've been trying to register with colas/formulas online using a mac (tried using firefox, safari, opera and chrome...) and have found that the system seems unwilling to accept the info that I'm entering. Has anyone had success with the colas/formulas online system using a browser *other than* Internet Explorer - more specifically, using a mac based browser? If the only browser specific portion is the registration process... well, I could do that by mail and be on my way with the rest of the application process on my mac — but if the whole thing really IS dependent on ie/windows... I'd like to know so that I can track down windows machine for ongoing label approval stuff.

Colorado Malting has been dealing in malted millet. http://coloradomaltingcompany.com/

Dave - I'll shoot you a message with my contact info. We just started distilling out in Buena Vista (1 hour+ from breck - depending on snow). There majority concentration of distilleries in CO are along the front range so it might make sense to head out that way, but if your more inclined to escape the city... we'd love to have you out here for a visit. BV is a beautiful spot (amazing mountains and killer hot springs) and you could day trip it from here over to Crested Butte to visit the Montanya Distillery as well. Of course, Breckenridge Distillery is right there in town for you (ask for Jordan) — possible walking distance depending on where your staying.

I've ordered these parts from stpats, mcmaster and gwkent -- until i discovered glacier tank (http://www.glaciertanks.com/) their prices are the best I've found to date and their customer service is excellent. For slightly more obscure fittings... I'd have to agree with the sheer awesomeness of mcmasters search feature and selection. Lastly, artisancopperworks.com sells some pretty cool stuff. Not a huge selection but worth checking out what they've got. You might find something that you didn't know you needed till you see it. I've picked up some 2" copper flanges and a sight glass.

I'm looking for a little ammo... Anyone out there operating their distillery under an F1 usage code *and* aging spirit within oak casks in quantities beyond the open or closed container storage limits (as casked spirit should be considered an exception to the storage limits in the IFC) — could you please let me know the name/location of your dsp? I've run into some late in the game opposition from local officials and I'm looking to site a few examples of other distilleries around the country that are operating in the same manner that I intend to. Thanks

I've been on this forum for a while but have been DSP'less until TODAY — we received our DSP in the mail and will be firing up the still on Wednesday. Today was a good day. Thanks to all who have offered up advice and guidance along the way. -lenny (DSP-CO-15026)

Corsair has a pumpkin moonshine : http://www.corsairartisan.com/spirits/experimental/pumpkin-spice-moonshine/

Philadelphia Distilling Company is just outside of Bucks County. It's off roosevelt blvd and woodhaven road I think. 10 mins. from where I grew up - figured I'd check them out next time I'm back that way. Small world with the Bucks County contingent on ADI forum!

These Denver guys are taking a go at it (kickstarter) for some brewery start-up capital. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1538541949/black-shirt-brewing-co-the-red-ale-project.

If anyone makes a gin with walnuts as part of their botanical blend, I'd be happy to sample it and report on any immediate anaphylaxis. Sorry I can't offer lab rat services for spirits with almond inclusion - those are one of the few tree nuts that don't faze me.

After some extensive snooping, it's sounding like the smaller barrels being offered up by various suppliers are *all* sourced from mexico (I could be mistaken). I would expect that there's a notable variance in quality between these novelty barrels that some distilleries are offering to consumers to age their own vs. the 15 gallon and larger barrels that are crafted by barrel mill and other reputable cooperages' around the US. As a novelty to offer customers to do some experiments in rapid barrel aging these mx barrels seem legit enough. I just want to see someone bend the the saves and hammer down hoops on those 1 liter barrels!

I've scene these 2 liter oak barrels retail for as low as $29 and as much as $79, but I haven't been able to dig up much on a manufacturer. Can anyone recommend a direct supplier or manufacturer for these little barrels?

Jesse - If you've got the energy to head up to Breckenridge (1.5 hr drive from denver) after the class on Saturday, you could hit up the Breckenridge Craft Spirit Festival as well as checking out Breckenridge Distillery (very cool operation they've got going). Enjoy your time at Downslope!

I need a chilling solution. A small'ish heat exchanger from Alfa Laval or Vicarb - similar to what most small breweries might run - would seemingly fit the bill, but they also seem like bit of overkill in the sense that I'm only looking to drop 300 gallons of wash by about 70 degrees (vs. a brewery that might be shooting for a 120+ degree drop). Plus, they aint cheap. I'm wondering what some of the smaller scale operations (by small, let's say... a 300 gallon volume for mash/sparge per batch) out there are doing to chill down your wash/mash/whatever to suitable pitching temperatures? Are you going with a legit gasketed stainless plate heat exchanger like the above mentioned, or possibly getting away with a smaller/lesser solution? I've been looking at some brazed stainless steel heat exchangers that are typically use for hydronic systems... something like this: http://www.gea-phe.com/USA/themes/products/brazed-plate-heat-exchangers-ecobraze/gbm-series/ in an 80 plate configuration. I was planning on using our tap water to pump and dump -- if necessary, maybe recirculate a time or two to get the full temp drop. I appreciate any thoughts or advice any of you might have.

Thanks for posting this. I just placed a post up there for the ever so elusive 'small used heat exchanger' that I've been on the steady hunt for. Curious to see if anything turns up.

@Deerhammer Thank you

Thanks for the advice. I kinda did that (sample distillation) already and I'm confident enough that it's got viable product potential. I'm just trying to get a sense of what others, who may have acquired an amount of bunk-wine from a winemaker, might think is an reasonable price to pay -- considering the fact that it's only other purpose would be to turn the sewer lines a shade of pink. If I decide to acquire the full 1,000 gallons of this stuff for my own production, I'd hope to pay no more than what might be considered a fair market value. Just not sure what that market value is.

Todd and Charles, Thank you very much for the insight. On the subject of a fair price for infected wine... Can anyone offer up opinion or past experience on what a fair price/gallon might be?

While still a couple weeks—month(s) out from our distillery being up and running, I was recently contacted by a local winery that is sitting on 1,000 gallons of red wine that was brutally infected with acetobacter. The owner of this winery has decided that the only way to recover any money from this disaster is to sell it as distilling stock — potentially to me since I'm opening the nearest distillery-to-be. A few questions to those with more experience and understanding... 1. Is there a standard'ish market value for such a wine gone bad to be used for edv/brandy production? I've been fumbling with what a fair $/gallon value might be if I did choose to acquire this stuff. Seems like something with the alternative of being dumped should be let go for a pretty fair (ie. dirt cheap) price. 2. From the bit of research I've done, it's sounding like an acid based infection in wine could actually be desirable for distilling purposes -- but, it's a red wine and as far as I know it's sitting at 12 or so percent abv. I did some *experimentation* with 5 gallons of this wine and the resulting new make had some nice qualities by my standards (I've got little to compare to with my minimal exposure to wine distillation). I'm wondering though, if I'd be signing up for some overly foul flavors/esters in comparison to the more archetypal wine based spirits out there, as a result of the higher abv wine base? 3. Rather than acquiring this distilling stock from the winery and producing the spirit as my own offering, I had thought that there might be a legitimate way for me to offer distilling services to this winery so that they might ultimately be able to sell this edv or brandy as another product in their portfolio - ideally out of their tasting room. The proprietor of this winery did not think this was the case. If this *is* indeed the case, can someone point me in the direction of any information (i suspect somewhere on ttb.gov but I didn't turn up anything) on how this process might be handled? I very much appreciate any insight you all might have to offer up. -lenny

Beautiful Website! I look forward to checking out your distillery on my next South East road trip.

I went with a sandpiper diaphragm pump ordered through mcmaster carr: http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/117/327/=dtwemi (item number 13465K38). It's the acetal housing with ptfe (Teflon) diaphragm. Safe for booze, pushes 12-14 gpm, kinda explosion proof and will move maximum viscosity of 10,000 centipoise (similar to chocolate syrup). It goes for $619 on mcmaster.com but I was told by a rep from Lee Mathews that I paid too much. Here's a pic of my pump mounted to a "cart"... If you interested in such a diaphragm pump for moving high proof liquid it might be worth reaching out to Patrick Wells with Lee Mathews (His number is 303.524.6912). They are a sandpiper dealer and he really seems to know his stuff. I'm currently working with him to source a centrifugal pump and a heat exchanger. If you wanted to go with just one pump to do it all, i'm fairly certain you could go with an explosion proof centrifugal pump. I suppose you could also use a diaphragm pump to move everything but then you'd have to contend with the air compressor noise associated with a whole lot more run time.

Thank you for the replies. Can't believe how much i'm deliberating over a stupid piece of screen! I've been trying to dig up some information on efficiency comparisons between various lauter mediums but haven't found much. I get that the 3/32" holes in the perforated sheet (as pictured in my first post) would likely be more difficult to clean and less structurally sound than this wedge or v wire. I'm not terribly concerned about the weight impact of standing on it since we'll be shoveling grains out through a manway, but if there's a better performing material out there I'd certainly like to weigh out all options. It's sounding like a custom engineered solution, along the lines of what Denver Distiller had mentioned using, would be the ultimate in efficiency (kinda curious what the nature of the laser cut screens were that make them more ideal than other options - interesting stuff). Here's where I'm finding myself a bit stumped though: I could live with the perforated steel sheet as a false bottom figuring that it will be beefed up with some cross members for support so long as it would offer up acceptable efficiency at around 85-90%, and flow without propensity to clog or get stuck so long as proper mashing/lautering practices are followed -BUT- if a wedge wire material or even the slotted steel sheet might be known as a given to offer up significantly higher efficiency... we'll, I can find a way to part with the extra $'s for that material. It's looking like a wedgewire false bottom would run me around $2,000 all said and done. I know that's chump change in the scheme of things but I'm trying to keep it tight wherever I can. I'm viewing this MLT build as something that I will likely scale up from in the next few years. So after the additional research I've done with the information offered up by you all (thanks again), I guess what I'm looking for insight on is — can I pull off decently high efficiency with reliable performance using the perforated steel as pictured above without kicking myself in the ass for trying to save $1,500 over the cost of a material that *might* make things perform at a higher standard and give me a 10% jump in efficiency?