Rickdiculous

It is interesting that Mr Turley made no statement about the 10-30% price increase which went on liquor sales after privatization. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/04/washington-state-liquor-privatization_n_1565414.html

I took a look at it and you may want to double check this, but in all of the examples the solutions were only factored to the second decimal and it is my understanding the TTB requires three decimal places. So it may not be operating as a tool you want to use for your official calculations.

Nick, I do like the idea you are proposing as the best one for our friend down under. After all it's an unaged whiskey they are after. I'm thinking Sugar beets for where I am headed. I must add though, your really intelligent points are tainted by your insults. I am still swimming in the memory of that 18 year old Scotch at the Brown. Thanks again. That was awesome. Ri

You might also try this book. http://www.amazon.com/Making-Pure-Corn-Whiskey-Professional/dp/0968629210/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339212320&sr=8-1&keywords=making+pure+corn+whiskey+by+ian+smiley

This is just a quick reminder to those of you interested in following this blog. My internship started today and I will be updating daily except for the weekends (unless something happens).

Can you guys give him one straight answer? He is obviously looking for a ballpark and no absolutes. So Otismoon figure you can get each run in four hours. Companies like Carl engineer their stills to run about the same length of time for any size. So starting with four hours a run you can tweak this to run faster or slower which is what your previous answers are eluding to without actually saying it. So it does depend, but go with typically four hours and do your math from there. So if all things were perfect which they are not as has been previously stated. In a three day distilling week (two days for marketing, business, etc) you would have time for 6 runs in three 8 hour days. So you could basically run one whole circuit from one fermenter a week and get two barrels of 60 abv, or 100 barrels a year. In a five day work week (assuming you have a partner doing the business stuff while you distill), you would have 10 4 hour runs which would give you the opportunity to run the whole thing twice and double that. This answer takes into account none of the variables the above advisors are correct to point out, so take this as a purely hypothetical and incomplete picture of the reality of the situation. That said as a ballpark it may be close enough for you needs. The big question you must begin to ask yourself is can you sell that much? This business is very little about making whiskey (we can all learn to do that) it is about, can you market and sell it? Production potential is a very small piece of the whole picture. I hope this helps.

Robert, You must have your settings set to not allow messaging as when I click on your name the send me a message icon does not appear with your profile. So I will put it here. I am interested in the still. I have one major concern and that is about when you can deliver it. I am in the process of moving and won't be somewhere I can take delivery of it before August. If we can work something out to make both parties happy, I would like to talk. Please send me a message or call 410-603-8629. If you get sent to voice mail please leave a message with your number and a few good times to call. Rick

If all that is true, and I get the property I am looking at, I should be in the clear. The two outbuildings are well over 20 yards from the house and I am looking at building a third to have as the distillery. I will look into the earlier posts you mentioned Chuck.

Thanks guys, I edited the link in the body of my post. As for having MSU update there website I will talk to Kris as soon as I get up there in a few weeks. I am moving soon so I am packing my house as well. The longer classes may not be listed because Kris is giving this all a go with me. So I don't know its complete future. Rick

Hey all my name is Rick Schneider and I am the 2012 ADI intern. I am going to Michigan State University as the first person to participate in their new two month artisan distilling internship. Kris Berglund who taught two day workshops in conjunction with Carl Stills developed this program to give those of us in the artisan distilling field a better education than a typical two day or one week class. This blog will serve as a way for all ADI members to follow how this course develops and what is involved. For those of you who wish to get acquainted more with Kris and what he teaches you can download his free book Artisan Distilling: a Guide for Artisan Distilleries at Distilling.com/PDF/artisan.pdf. Many of you may already have this. The internship runs from June 1 to July 31 and I will do my best to keep up a daily post of what was learned and explored as well as a week synopsis. My hope is many of you will see this as the one of the best options for improving your education and understanding of Distilling. I hope you enjoy it! Shoot me as many questions as you like about the class as it progresses and I will try and answer them as we go. Sincerely, Rick You can follow the blog at www.rickdiculousdistiller.blogspot.com

For those of you who have distilleries on a farm or on your personal property, can you tell me if you needed to have a legal separation, ie lot split or a new plat developed for the building you are distilling in or if they exist separately is that all which is required? I am looking at a hobby farm in Minnesota to grow the grain and distill. I would have two out buildings which exist currently and may build a new structure for the distillery and use those buildings as Rick houses. Just curious what your experiences have been. Thanks in advance for your responses.

Curtis, Love the idea, I hope people will pay $9.99 for on the spot help. Good luck with it. I passed it along. Rick

I may be interested in two of them. I would rather have two stills than one big one for a variety of reasons. If this will have the copper column and the capability of expansion the 60 gallons has. Would love to see the rendering if you have the time.

Steve, Any chance we can get a copper column on this little guy like you did for the 60 gallon?

Please explain to me how Willett is not a "pure pot still" whiskey, and please define what you mean by "Pure"?

Did the law make any specific mention of zoning for the Craft Distillery? If it did, you will have to address that directly. Where I am doing my start up in Iowa, I talked with my fire marshall and he told me I need an F1 small factory. This gave me the ability to have up to 240 gallons in process. That is out of the still waiting to be barreled or bottle etc. If I need to have more than the 240 it would move me up to a hazardous material manufacturer. I would give your fire marshall a call and see what he thinks before you meet with anyone else. They will likely acquiesce to his decisions. Hope that helps.

Try contacting King's County Distilling in Brooklyn NY. www.kingscountydistillery.com They have done exactly what you are talking about with 5 small 10 gallon stills and small room to work in. They make a moonshine, a bourbon Whiskey, and a chocolate Whiskey (interesting). But they are all guys who have day jobs and do this as a side business. I don't know how much time they might have to talk, but you never know. There are a number of people making smaller affordable stills that can do the job you seek with out a huge investment. see www.artisanstilldesign.com (violent blue on the forum), www.hillbillystills.com, www.coppermoonshinestills.com, and artisanstills.com. good luck. Rick

As a matter of getting this going. No messages sent to me will be discussed or posted or names used in anyway, I am just looking for some honesty about what is being offered out there.

I am looking to get some reviews/references of distilling classes you have taken. How many people were in them? Did you get to operate the equipment? Were you encouraged to try and figure things out under their eye? Did they give you a good idea of what to expect in the business? Was it a good value for the money? Was the class encouraging or discouraging? Thanks

Max, As someone going through this right now, I would go and ask your local liquor guys. I went to all the big sellers and asked them how the other local distilleries (my market has five) were fairing at their pricepoints and what they thought the market would bare. I also, asked them about how I could position myself. Would I be able to make a model like tuthilltown work (selling 350ml bottles for $44.95) or my local competitors (who are selling around $37.50 a 750ml)? Every market is different and you can't get a reasonable guess from someone else's market. The real question you should ask is "What is my goal for this distillery?" Do you want to make $50k a year or $100K? How many people will you need to get that accomplished? How much material? etc and then calculate how much of the market at what price point you need to grab that. Set that percentage as what you will capture and then put forth a marketing plan which sees achieving that goal as a real possibility.

I think one of the major things Chuck is trying to get across which is being lost in this argument is about truly taking pride in what you do, and not trying to be what you are not. So let me define this in a set of terms and an example outside whiskey for a second. I am an artist, I primarily work in glass. We often have a debate about Craft vs Art. In todays craft world almost no one wants to define themselves as Craftsman even though that is truly what most of them are. They want to be an Artist, to create a one of a kind item, when what they do is production glass work. Why won't they take pride in saying I am a craftsman and elevate the term rather than seek to be what they are not. So how does this fit within this discussion. First if you make a Bourbon Recipe by what the gov't standards say are Bourbon, then yes, by that narrow definition it is Bourbon. I am not going to argue the semantics of that word as you all have beat it do death. What I think Chuck is trying to get us to do is to define what we do honestly and take pride in it. If you age in a small barrel and make the claim "My whiskey was aged in a ... gallon Barrel for ...period of time and due to the increased ratio of surface to volume it will taste exactly like a (insert your favorite whiskey you wish to compare yourself too) who is waiting 6-15 years in a large 53 gallon barrels" you are hoping to pull the wool over a buyers eyes. Their is no research which supports that claim by any barrel company or whiskey distiller, yet many make that claim. Dr. Shaw at the ADI conference gave a fantastic talk on the science of what happens in barrels and how this works. The ratios of extraction to oxidation are not the same in small barrels as in big ones. After all, the implication of a statement like "Aged for less than 4 years", which is appearing on other bottles since tuthilltown started it on their labels, is the whiskey is aged close to four years. That simply isn't true. Less than is true, comparing 3-6 mos and less than four years is not. I still love my Manhattan Rye and Four grain Bourbon. What I believe Chuck wants is for you to take pride in what you do and make claims more in line with what happens. In small barrels where more extraction and less oxidation( a function of time in barrel) takes place a more oaky flavor occurs than in large barrels where oxidation is happening in greater quantities. Make claims about how the small barrel process is creating unique flavors not experienced in the whiskey world before the influx of craft distillers. Make claims about how this will draw in new fans to a spirit they may have overlooked, and make claims about it broadening our whiskey experience rather than tying it to the history we want to have. We have to make that history, not co-opt it from the existing industry. It is very hard for most people (myself included) to judge themselves. I didn't hear one person at the ADI conference discuss what they made as (I'm making pretty good stuff, but I am still in the development of what Whiskey will be my signature.) They are mostly talking about how they are doing it better, and make the best thing out there. We want our spirits spoken about like the Woodfords, Obans, and Pappy's of the world, but are we really in the same class after making whiskey for a couple of years, after a two day or one week class at a distillery, where they made whiskey before many of our families even came to this country? I truly believe Chuck is in no why trying to divide us in terms of what is better as many of you are accusing him of. He is trying to get us to define ourselves in a fashion as unique as the spirits we are making. On that I couldn't agree with him more and I believe my earlier comments support that. I would also like to point something out to those of you making claims he may be a shill for Buffalo Trace. If Buffalo Trace or anyone else thought they could make a truly better product in small barrels in a tenth of the time why wouldn't they? Either it's history or it doesn't taste the same as what they recognize as their bourbons and how They want it to taste. That in no way diminishes the value of the flavors craft distillers are making in small barrels it just makes them different. We should take greater pride in that, as opposed to how much we taste similar to what came before us.

One thing you may want to think about is that if you have one boiler running everything, when it goes down, (and they go down), everything stops. with Dedicated boilers or staged boilers you can keep up production. That was the advice I got from a distiller I took a class from.

Sorry, Deerhammer, Here is a bit more clarification. Sandblasting does give a depth of cut chemical etching most often will not. However, it is usually only a single depth and very short (1/32") which is what your image shows. Engraving on the other hand has a greater ability to make significant varied depths to create a more sculpted look. This is possible with a sandblaster but as a glass artist who does a lot of this on my work, it is very difficult to make it look good. I am in now way making a comment on the quality of the work or its impact to costumers. (just saying as tone is often lost in posting) Your glasses are cool and I would buy one if I ever visit you. www.rickschneiderglass.com

Also, as a bit of clarification, hand blasting is simply sandblasting and is a manufacturing process not to be confused with what most people understand hand crafted to mean. They make a photo resist with your logo, blast it with sand/aluminum oxide and you get a frosted image. Engraving is a process of grinding the image by hand on a lathe with stone or diamond impregnated wheels which will give you an image with a much greater level of depth. Most likely not cost effective for a distillery shop item.

While the EPA may not be reasonable (I am not sure what you are referring to), if byproducts are going to be your problem they would be a huge problem for Woodford Reserve, Jim Beam, You name it. You would be small potatoes compared to the economics of scale the big guys produce. What you may want to do ahead of time (which is the best way to do this), is find out how to properly dispose of you waste in your state and have a plan ready if anyone asks. Contact your states environmental agency, your counties, your cities waste management company. Most of the problems with agencies like the EPA are with people who don't do their homework first and wait for the EPA to find a problem. This situation is often seen as your trying to cover something up. Ignorance of the law/no excuse crap. The answer should always be find out yourself first. The internet makes it easy. I am looking into some kind of generator/ heater that can safely burn methanol. Good luck, Rick