Jonathan Forester

The only thing I personally don't like about this is the 60kpg limit. I think the 95kpg limit proposed by DISCUS is more realistic. What are the limits set by each state? In NY state a small distillery can have the A-1 and/or the D farm distillery permits. Each with a 35kpg cap. But if you have both, that's a total of 70kpg. I'm sizing my new place to be able to produce up to that 70kpg cap, and plan to do so within a few years. This may be a lot of cases, but not a factory size distillery. 70kpg is about 36k cases a year. There are several artisanal distilleries producing more than that.

This is an important discussion. Let's stay calm and polite folks, or else we will have to delete comments. We don't want to have to do that, all of you have the right to your thoughts and opinions. Just keep the language reasonable, and discussion appropriate.

As the others said, it depends on what you are making. What size still/s? How many and what size fermenters? Mashing tank? Bottling line? Storage for empty glass, and full glass? Barrels, both empty, and full? Equipment storage area for forklift, pallet jack, pumps, hoses, etc.? Grain and botanicals storage? NGS storage? Also, will you have a tasting room and retail store? Office space? Restrooms for public, restrooms for staff? What about a break room / kitchen for staff? How large an operation? How many staff? How much production? Figure out all that, then get some graph paper and lay it out. Then see how much space you need. Personally I think that 1,600 sf is a bit cramped, and that's just for the distillery. I think that 2,000-2,500sf is more realistic for a very small 1-3 man operation. My new distillery will be much larger than my original one, which was very small and cramped to the point of useless. Looking at the price in building a new facility from the ground up, the price to go bigger didn't increase much, comparatively. I'll have apx. 5000sf on ground level, most of that the distillery and storage, but with a very large tasting room, restrooms, and dining area using around 750-1,000sf. Then apx. 1.500sf on a second level for offices, extra storage, etc. All in a Dutch Gambrel style barn structure that will fit in nicely in the middle of the 440 acre farm.

Yes, I met Purity's distiller/owner last week. He is claiming that every plate is a distillation. Technically it is in a way, but... theoretical vs. actual distillation, pot/alembic vs. hybrid vs. column... I wasn't going to argue while he was talking to the US Bartenders Guild NY Chapter (Of which I am a very active member) about his product. It just wouldn't be right. As a distiller I know how difficult it is to brand your product. By the way, out of the 30 or so bartenders and media in the group, there wasn't a single vodka lover. During the event there was a competition with a blind vodka tasting of five unknown vodkas. All we knew were that two were Polish, two Swedish, and one Dutch. Myself and another were able to name all five correctly. Purity, Ketel One, Belvedere, Uluvka, and Karlsson's. And I HATE vodka, but I pretty good taste memory. Except for the Purity, which I had just tried an hour earlier for the first time, I hadn't had any of the others in several years.

In the future I'll have more to say. But my new distillery I'm building in NY State is on a 440 acre farm. The farm hasn't EVER seen pesticide, herbicide, etc. and has only had manure and liquid manure as fertilizer in it's history, going back hundreds of years.

Get in touch with Ed (JarHead) about how he did a very low cost electrical system. http://adiforums.com/index.php?showuser=267 I think he said it was costing him less than 20 cents an hour to run his stills. And he is producing a really great product.

Some molds can live in 40% alcohol, but over that strength there really isn't much that can survive.

Ed, I'll have to come visit you again some time and check out your new setup. I haven't dropped by since almost a year ago. J

I've seen one distillery that aged all their small barrels standing on end. I don't know if they had excessive leaks. I haven't had any leaks in the couple dozen small (3-5 gl) barrels that I have aging for the past 3 years. I have no clue about full size, 53 gl barrels.

Actually Distilled Beer is an actual class of spirit. I have had several distilled beers from American distillers, including Charbay. And Charbay get $300-400 a bottle for theirs.

With stainless how are you removing the copper compounds?

The Laphroig Quarter Cask is pretty good stuff. I can't remember the exact flavor profile, but my bottle was gone within three days.

I agree, those tiny pics are useless.

While it is legal with the TTB, it may not be legal in your state. Each state varies so you should check it out with your state liquor board as well.

[i've made rums from molasses wash and just let it ferment until most of the yeast had settled out. Then distilled it in a 60 gallon direct fire pot still. I didn't worry about some of the yeast getting into the still. The rums came out excellent.

I have a Wilson direct flame heated still. I used it at my old place quite successfully, for wines into brandy and rum from a molasses wash. I liked the results so much that I will have a separate distillery in my new facility to use the direct flame still, but I am ordering several steam jacketed stills for my main production. Different types of stills produce different product. As others have said, you can't walk away from a direct flame still. Someone must be physically present at all times. I have also found that sometimes, right in the middle of the heart, you can get off flavors coming across for a short while. Being physically present and tasting the run frequently, can lead to some fantastic spirits. I also feel that in a direct flame heated still that more of the oils and varying components pass over. This can be a good or bad thing. You have to stay on top of the spirits run, but if you are attentive, and run it slow, the oils that transfer over seem to lead to a product that ages quicker, and with more depth. I have made rums that continued aging in the bottle after the barrel aging. They improved for up to a year after. I recently had a group re-taste some rum and brandy that they had first tasted well over a year ago when it had been in the bottle for a few months, and their findings showed just how much the spirit had mellowed and improved in the bottle. As for quality, I have had almost every one of the top spirits and rum experts in the world try the rums from the Wilson still, and give me amazing feedback. Comments like "Wonderful", "One of the best rums I ever tried", etc. So, quality is as good as what you make of it. In a year or so I will have collected more info about quality differences between direct flame and steam jacketed stills, as I plan to run some of the same batches split among the two types of stills, and compare.

Nathan- I just want to let you know that asking for detailed info, spreadsheets, plans, etc. is not what this site is about. No one is going to just hand you this info on a platter. As others have said, much of this info is site and situation dependent. Also much of this info has been developed at great cost and isn't going to be given away free.

That's a scam. Someone is using the Karash's info. I've heard of this one before. Do you know Russ and his daughter Heidi? I think that a scam artist got hold of the ADI resource list and will be sending out a bunch of these to ADI members.

Like many things in this world, it fell through. It was started as a add-on to the 2009 ADI conference, and a bunch of bloggers and writers were invited to the conference and to take part in the blog. Afterwards, the writers all had too much on their plates, or other interests, etc. and there was no follow up.

Seth, get in touch with Bill Owens. He has the most up to date info.

Jes, I'm going to have to come up soon and see what you are doing. I still have that extremely well made condenser and parrot that I got from you, and will be using it in my new distillery. I'd like to come up, check out the equipment, take photos, and write about it. Jonathan

I agree with what Will said. Low wines, which are the first distillation, are around 25-35% alcohol, and I have never heard of them being aged. They may be collected for several runs, and then run through the still as one batch, the finishing run, to get the high wines, the actual spirit. It sounds like you may have misunderstood some information that you have read.

NGS suppliers use HDPE plastic drums and totes to ship 190 proof in. I haven't noticed any flavor pickup from them. In the winery I was partners in, we used 500 gallon HDPE containers that were specially treated in some way to ferment and store wine in.

Ralph- anything I find that is about amateur or home distilling I will delete. If I miss something, point it out to me. Jonathan

Robert, none of the links you used in your post work. Jonathan