Jonathan Forester

You might want to get a goddard condenser from Jesse at Trident Welding. he packs 165 feet of tubing into a five foot condenser.

The geese sound like a great idea, until you think about all the goose crap. Living in an area with an overabundance of Canada geese I know how much of a problem it is.

I would speak with Jesse of Trident Welding. He is building some very nice stills and may have some suggestions.

Pete, can you describe the flavor profile of the spirit? Then I could make some suggestions. If you were here in the states I would say send me a bottle and I and a few of my staff/coordinators for my international cocktail expo could play with it.

If you are looking for a new toasted barrel, call Gibbs Bros. Coopers or The Barrel Mill.

Many folks use compressed air, or CO2. Some of the big companies rinse with the same spirit that is being bottled, then filter it clean later for bottling.

Melkon, it's time for a Facebook page.

While we plan to eventually grow all our grains, this first year we will have to source them from other NY State farms. Does anyone have a list of places I can contact? Thanks, Jonathan

Those so called 'burglar bombs' are considered 'active defense' in many states and are illegal. That said, I am very in favor of active defense.

Install a very good security system and have signs all over the place. And have the loudest sirens you can get inside and outside. (I used to work in the security industry a long time ago, and you can get sirens that can practically knock people unconscious.) Has anyone actually heard of someone breaking in to a distillery to steal the copper still? My new place is in a rural area and on a wine trail. I'm just making sure I have top quality steel doors and a great security system for the distillery. I'm more worried about folks trying to get into the aging area, but I don't think they will be able to since it is going to be in a series of underground bunkers with a security system. All of the security system will be wireless and communicate to a wireless phone modem as well.

Rye cover crops are several varieties. Many heritage corsn are not good. Too high a protein, too low a stach.

I just want to add that I have been in touch with Chris Gerling at Cornell Ag dept. and Inge Russell, and they both will be back with info on this some time soon. I also invited them to drop by here every now and then and chime in.

If you do some research on the posts here, there is info on that. In NY State you can be your own distributor, and sell to retailers with the A-1 license, and sell retail with D Farm license.

Let's mellow out a bit here, and keep the discussion civil. It has been shown that yeasts do have 'terroir', different areas have yeasts that naturally occur, that have different characteristics. In history this was seen in parts of Europe with wine and beer making. Here in the US, whiskey country with bourbon. In a different direction, San Francisco with sourdough bread. One starts with the naturally occurring yeasts, then the 'art' part is improving the strains, which is done through hard scientific controls. If one has the ability, equipment, and time; you can develop your own yeast, starting with the 'wild' naturally occurring yeasts. Whether one wants to is an individual question. If I can, I will. I have the skills and can get the knowledge, but it will be a side project; not something I'm betting my whole business on.

Let's mellow out a bit here, and keep the discussion civil. I agree with Chuck, in that I want to see some hard scientific facts about forced aging and maturing. (and there is a difference between the two.) I have always been fascinated by this in both clear/un-aged spirits where filtration, sound, oxygen, etc. cause change; and in barrel aged products where you have the added effects of wood, toast/char level, time, temp. (steady state vs cycling, and high vs. low), barrel volume, etc. One day I hope to do some solid research on this, as well as wood types, spirit abv., etc. In my new place I am going to have temperature and humidity controlled storage/maturation in a series of underground bunkers/rooms. I can probably do a lot of experimentation one day (after I can afford to) because it will be so well insulated, and have the ability to have each area at different climate settings. I look forward to being able to show scientifically what is happening in differing scenarios.

I played around with cultivating wild yeast at my old place. In most cases it did not work well, and I was unwilling, in time and lost batches, to keep experimenting to improve the yeast. The only time it worked was the first time, which was with hard cider and then a brandy, made from fresh apples, crushed and pressed at a local orchard. That was actually an accident. We picked up the 55 gallon drums of fresh juice, brought them back to the winery, and filled up the 500 gallon tank. Then there was some mis-communication and we each thought the other had pitched the yeast. It was fermenting for a few days before we realized the mistake. I tasted it and it was better than the batch from the year before, so we let it continue. Then when we bottled we ran out of glass and I distilled the last and ended up with five gallons that I aged. Both the cider and the brandy were very good. But when I tried to replicate it again in small batches, the cider, and rum wash, were horrible.

I was under the impression that using mercury thermometers was not approved by TTB for quite awhile. And not in any food or beverage operation. I haven't even seen a mercury thermometer in several decades.

I'll ask Ann who is on so far. I told her that I probably won't have my new place up and running for this year unless a miracle occurs and we get our state permits by then. Which I doubt since we are applying for the A-1 Small Distillery, D Farm Distillery, and Winery permits all at the same time.

Hi Matt & Max, I think it's a great idea. As one of the collaborating writers for Tales of the Cocktail for the past three years, I have seen how powerful these sessions and seminars can be. This is a great way for the smaller spirits producers be a part, at a much lower rate. I also think your session will dovetail well with another session Ann is planning. I am pasting it to follow. Jonathan ====================================================================================================================== Tales of the Cocktail Shake Things Up July 20-24, 2011 Bartenders create unbelievable cocktails on a nightly basis. Once a year the most influential minds in mixology come together to shake up the entire industry at Tales of the Cocktail®. Now in its ninth year, Tales of the Cocktail has grown into the world’s premier cocktail festivalan annual meeting place for cocktail professionals to share ideas, techniques, new products and more. There’s no better way to get your brand in front of the industry’s elite than being a Tales of the Cocktail sponsor. In addition to the exposure your brand receives, a Tales of the Cocktail sponsorship is an investment in the future of cocktails. The proceeds from this summer’s events will be reinvested into the hospitality industry through the New Orleans Culinary and Cultural Preservation Society. NOCCPS funds educational opportunities for up and coming cocktail professionals with programs like the Flo Woodward Memorial Scholarship and the Cocktail Apprentice Scholarship. Meet the Craft Distillers Presented by American Distilling Institute and Tales of the Cocktail In the last decade, the number of small distillers in the U.S. grew from a few dozen to more than two hundred today, now making an array of products from white spirits such as vodka and gin to wide varieties of liqueurs, aged whiskeys and brandies. Tales of the Cocktail was founded on entrepreneurial spirit and in 2011 will give our attendees a special opportunity to meet the artisans of our country’s craft distillers. Each of these craft distillers is producing alcoholic beverage spirits in annual quantities of fewer than 50,000 proof gallons using a pot still. At this event you will get a rare opportunity to:  Meet the distillers and makers for each spirit  Learn about their ingredients, what they are, how they are harvested, transported and stored  Learn about their process of making the spirit from the neutral spirit to the aging and finishing process  Learn about their equipment, stills, barrels, bottling, labeling and innovations  Discuss with them their unique methods, processes, and what brought them into this industry. Each of these spirits is created by an individual working with small hand operated equipment. Craft Distiller Showcase  Friday, July 22, 2011  4:30pm-7:00pm  Capacity—300-400 Location Hotel Monteleone Sponsorship Benefits Provided by Tales of the Cocktail: Direct Mail and Collateral:  Name Inclusion in Tales of the Cocktail promotional materials o 25,000 Event announcement postcards o 15,000 Tales of the Cocktail programs created and designed by Savuer Magazine o One signature recipe per sponsor label featured in the 2011 Tales of the Cocktail E-book Advertising and Public Relations:  Name inclusion as a sponsor in all print ads  Name inclusion as a sponsor in all public relation materials distributed to all print, broadcast and electronic media Online Exposure:  Logo inclusion on the TalesoftheCocktail.com event website with direct links to your site  Logo inclusion on the pages about your sponsored events with direct links to your site  Craft distiller photo and bio featured on Tales of the Cocktail website On-Site Exposure:  Opportunity for product branding at the event with décor and other items at your station.  Logo inclusion on welcome signage and table signage at the event  First hour for media, distributors, presenters and other Tales of the Cocktail VIP’s to meet and sample your craft products On the Rocks Sponsorship Fee includes the following:  2 cases of FIJI Water per station  One Hotel Monteleone banquet server per two tables  Hotel Linens (cream color)  Kold Draft ice  Ice bucket or ice tub per station  Cocktail napkins  Glassware  One dump/spit bucket on each station  Two Tables that are —6’ x 30”, one in front of you and one behind you  One Tales of the Cocktail Volunteer per two tables  Photographer to documents the event and take a photo of your area Other Benefits:  One sponsor badge  Additional event tickets and merchandise may be purchased at a 20% discount. Some restrictions apply.  Discounted hotel rates and packages at the Hotel Monteleone and other partner hotels Sponsor Obligations:  $1,000 to the New Orleans Culinary and Cultural Preservation Society (NOCCPS). o NOCCPS is a 501c3, EIN 84-1701381, donations are tax deductible to the fullest extent of the law.  Submit photo and bio of distiller for the Tales of the Cocktail website  Brand item or promotional item for inclusion in the Lagniappe Lounge at Tales of the Cocktail. SWAG is given to all media and presenters. Estimated quantity is 500 -600 pieces.  Cross-promotional support on applicable channels such as website, newsletters, email databases, etc. About Tales of the Cocktail Tales of the Cocktail is the world’s premier cocktail festival, bringing together the most respected minds in mixology for five days of cocktails, cuisine and culture. Held annually in New Orleans, this event has something for cocktail professionals and enthusiasts alike with a spirited schedule of seminars, dinners, competitions, parties and special events where brands showcase their latest products. Now in its ninth year, Tales of the Cocktail returns with another round of events all perfectly paired with some of the best cocktails ever made. Shake things up at Tales of the Cocktail 2011, July 20-24. About the New Orleans Culinary and Cultural Preservation Society The New Orleans Culinary and Cultural Preservation Society is a non-profit organization committed to preserving the unique culture of cocktails and cuisine in New Orleans and beyond. Since it’s founding in 2006, NOCCPS has supported members of the hospitality industry through educational opportunities such as the Flo Woodward Scholarship and the Cocktail Apprentice Scholarship Program, as well as the production of events like Tales of the Cocktail.

I know this has come up before, but with little information. I am deciding upon what varieties of each grain to plant on our farm distillery this year. I'm putting into production about 70 acres of mixed grains: corn, wheat, rye, barley (for malting), maybe some millet and triticale. I have found some information on corn, barley, and wheat, mostly in Russell's Whiskey book; and some internet research. I would like to hear what varieties of each type you folks are using for distilling. The following are some prefferred distillers grains. Corn Standard Yellow Dent Corn Standard White Dent Corn Barley- for malting In the UK: Winter- Regina Spring- Decanter; Chalice, Chariot, Derkado, Optic, Prisma USA: Wheat Soft Wheat- Riband; Consort, Claire Soft White or Red Winter Wheat Varieties (No hard varieties such as Durum or Hard Red Spring) Not much luck with the following. Rye I can't find any modern info on rye varieties (19th century varieties- Sunnyside and Pennsylvania) Millet- No info about best for distilling Tritical- (Hybrid of wheat and rye) No info about best for distilling

If things keeping going like this, New York City will have more distilleries than any other city in the country, and with most of them based in Brooklyn. As a native New Yorker (Born in Harlem, childhood in Brooklyn, teens and 20's three miles or less from the NYC border) I love the idea.

This stuff fascinates me. We are designing our new farm distillery, on a 440 acre farm, where grains have been grown for generations. We want to be green and using clean energy, setting up sustainability, etc. We are planting over 70 acres this year, and will increase that as time goes by. We have asked several local distilleries what their needs are, and will take that into account when we plant. The three story building will be set into the hillside for insulation, and ground level access to all floors. We were thinking about setting it up gravity fed and pump free, like the local Stoutridge winery/distillery is, but decided not to for a variety of reasons. We are putting in a 45KW PV solar system with a full thermal solar array as well. We will be making more electricity than we will use, and will have some electric vehicles, as well as sell back to the grid. We will be reclaiming hot water for multiple uses, until any water released is near ambient temperature. We are designing 'containerized wetlands', a bio-treatment process in which waste components can be recovered for re-use or by using a vegetated sand bed, before it is released into our ponds, and then the DEC protected wetlands and trout stream on the property. We are being surveyed about possible geo-thermal heating and cooling. I am looking at several bio-mass boilers that can burn wet (under 60% humidity) spent grains. Working with local farmers to raise livestock with our spent grain. We are also building a malting house, where we will malt some of our grains, and contract malt for others. Basically, my business partner and I are designing a showpiece of green and clean agriculture based food/beverage industry. We will be starting construction in late Winter or early Spring.

Congratulations as well. That sounds great. I'm about a year behind you and look forward to hearing from you about what works and what doesn't. I'm just getting ready to talk with our farmer about what grains to plant this year. And I'm working on design of a malting house.

Please tell us a bit more if you can. I'm NYC based myself, building my new distillery in Dutchess County. I know most of the four new distilleries in BK. You would be the 5th? Or 6th? Jonathan

I'm not an expert on malting. I'm just starting my own research in plans to build a large commercial malting house to add to my new distillery operation. I say go for it and see how it works. The process you describe sounds easy. And it may produce a great product. There are tried and true ways of doing things. BUT, the micro-distillers have been experimenting over the past 20 years and now the big boys are starting to look at the 'wrong' way we do things, and question the old ways when they see the good results that can be gotten through experimentation. I have been having conversations with a few head distillers from Scotland and other countries. They are avidly following what is going on. A few are reading everything on this forum. A distiller for one of the biggest names in single malt Scotch is a regular lurker here, he personally told me so last year. The only thing about using the green malted rye is consistency. Different temperatures will affect malting times, the amount of starches converted, etc. This will affect the fermentation. Flavors developed in fermentation will control those that come through the distillation. I would keep very detailed notes. As the product flavor profile changes, over day to day, month to month, you will learn what changes in the process do to the flavor at each step. As you make changes, do it in only one part of the process at a time. Please let us know about your experiments and the results. If you are having problems we may be able to troubleshoot. And of course we want to know about your successes.