absaroka

Stave thickness also helps/hinders loss. 2-3% per year for full-sized barrels is about right. Just remember that not only does the surface area increase for aging in small barrels it also increases the surface area for evaporation. All said, it's pretty even (if all else is equal).

You must use the gauging tables provided on the TTB website http://www.ttb.gov/foia/gauging_manual_toc.shtml

We use a hammer mill for our barley (fine grind). We also mash/ferment/distill on the grains. It works great and I wouldn't do it any other way!

Thanks guys! Emails inbound....

Does anyone have a good source for the Glencairn glasses to buy in bulk?

Anybody using a decent barrel thief? Not interested in glass, maybe stainless or copper.

You guys will do good things.... have fun and good luck!

Back on the market... no response from original buyer.

If anyone is making or planning on making an order, please contact me. Let's get this co-op going. I'm in dire need of bottles and I really don't have the space to store an entire shipping container. Anyone???

Paul, Just from your brief description, you would be classified as an F-1. Email me and I can forward you all of the pertinent IBC/IFC code rules for you. Some helpful info to get you started can be found here: http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=2...entry1478

Apollo Economill. 2HP three phase motor. Very low usage. Hardened rollers. Excellent condition and a great mill. Less than 5000lbs of use. Can email pics/specs to interested parties. http://www.apollomachineandproducts.com/roller-mill.html

DP = diastatic power

8 hours if you can dodge the WY highway patrol and deer/jackrabbits/cattle on the road. I recommend coming up through West Yellowstone as the scenery is much better. I'll buy the first round of libations!

Same to you, Denver Distiller. I enjoy these technical question/answer/opinion posts.... I think it really adds to this boards' content. Like you said, there are many methods to get the same outcome.... too many variables are at play to pinpoint a be-all end-all solution. FWIW, I don't use the tank-less h20 heaters for the boiler... they are reserved for heating CIP water etc. I have the cold water input on the drip leg section (custom built by my boiler installer) of the wet steam return. It works very well and, although there IS loss in the system, this setup keeps it minimal for what I'm doing. John, hopefully this little discussion has helped you out!

1. Use tank-less hot water heater(s). It alleviates the cold shock to the boiler. 2. See #1 3. Inject steam before mashing in grains (strike temp) to alleviate DP loss. It takes some experimentation (and math) to get it spot on, but it's achievable, reliable, and repeatable. I get awesome, fast conversions. 4. See #3 5. Treat water pre-boiler. 6. See #1. I looked at both methods prior to fitting the DI system. Both work wonderfully well when installed in the correct system. But steam injection is easy, fast, and a more efficient means of heat/energy transfer (for my system, anyway). A good boiler guy will get you cookin' in no time.... but most are used to close-loop (condensate return) systems. State/local regs also play a role in this.

it's as easy as the difference in specific heat of stainless (or copper, or any metal) versus water (and it takes 1/2 to 1/3 of the time for heating depending on jacket design and steam injection technique). I have both and there is a measurable difference.

John, your math looks about right (without digging into my references). Gas boiler efficiency is 80-85%. Also consider the installation costs between the two boilers.... they could vary greatly depending on manufacturer and type. Direct steam injection is a far more efficient medium for heating as opposed to jackets. You look like you're on the right path.....

Building wooden racks to hold 53gal barrels is getting old and I would like the ability to move barrels around during aging. I'm looking to switch to metal stackable racks. Anyone have a decent supplier of these?

Count us in. By the looks of it we are all using Saver, correct?

The TTB license was the easy part! 90 days from start to finish. Follow all directions and triple check your application. All staff were helpful and if your agent was off/on vacation/etc. a quick call to the supervisor and your question(s) were answered right away. I was told by our agent that they recently added winery licenses to their workload and that was pushing some things out a bit.

Any status updates on where this proposed legislation may be? Seems to me this session would be a perfect time for an "economic relief" bill. The craft brewers just had a similar piece of legislation introduced.... HR 836.

Check out this thread: http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=9

I just don't want to have anyone get "bit" by this information later on. Hopefully some day somebody will eventually come across this nugget of info and leave with a better feeling of what could be expected. I side-stepped this issue due to the simple fact of who built my still and where it was produced (Vendome). Up unitl then, I really had no idea even though I frequent various code books all of the time. Paul, your arguments are valid and I totally am on the engineering side of things when it comes to this issue. Code officials aren't necessarily engineers or the most informed individuals, especially when it comes to the distilling industry. And they unfortunately (or fortunately for some) are the ones who hold the final decision. How many people come and look at your still and it's like a cave man seeing television for the first time? They have no clue (until after they leave once we've explained the process). Stills are simplistic and complicated pieces of equipment all at the same time, and I love that part of it! Continuing off of Denver Distiller's post, anything ASME certified is guaranteed to cost you exponentially. Paul: your math is accurate but I think the underlying principle of relief valves is a "what if" type of scenerio, i.e. restriction or failure. Hell, all codes are written to "what if" scenerios. Good points all around.....

Mine are set at 15psi, boiler is always less than that. ICC reps cite that if there are no pressure release valves in the distillation path, then there is no way to determine absolute pressure in that vessel (unless you have certification of that). The still is heating Class I, II, or III flammable liquids beyond their closed cup flash point and it is being sent through a distillation column/path (restrictive) creating either pressure or vacuum. That's why they frown on the homebuilt applications, there are no release valves plumbed into them to ensure the <15psi rating. And ASME codes cite the vessel can be fired or unfired, the source of how the pressure is made is not important. It doesn't just apply to the steam jackets. This is all according the Senior Technical Staff Officials at the ICC. I am just reiterating what they told/wrote to my local officials. It is up to your local officials to either approve or disapprove your installation. Once approved, it would be extremely difficult for them to go back on it. That is why you see them in some commercial (craft) applications. If your local officials have the confidence to make that decision without searching (or talking with ICC reps), then there should be no problem. If you get ignorant or difficult officials, that is the answer they will get from the staff that write these codes. BTW, they aren't very fond of European models either. They state that few, if any, have US authorized inspectors to certify them via ASME, IFC, NFPA 30, or IMC. I laughed at that one out loud, but that's what they wrote. All of this information is here to provide a little "devil's advocate" for those seeking homebuilt stills. Now you know and could possibly save you some $$ in the long run if you first have a conversation with your local code enforcement representatives. I see flagrant code violations driving down the street in any town (engineering background).... stuff gets by these inspectors all the time. Distillation techniques are hardly household concepts, so officials balk and sign off. I see/saw it all of the time in other industries

Just and FYI.... Those stills are not ASME certified and the ICC (international code council, the ones who write the international building, fire, etc. codes that most local officials reference) do not approve of them. Stills are a pressure vessel and must follow ASME Code Section VIII Division 1 criteria. If your local authorities know what they are doing or contact the ICC, those types of shed-built stills will become decoratoin.