PeteB

The beauty of these forums is if someone gives incorrect or incomplete advice then hopefully someone else will make a correction or fill in the gaps. I have been welding for over 45 years as part of my living. I currently own 5 welders. (actually 6 if you count a couple of 12 V batteries. They run a beautifully neat bead with low amp rods) I certainly do not say "I know it all", far from it. I have seen photos of your welding and machining Absinthe Pete, very impressive. You would most likely have spent many more hours on a welder than I have. I had planned to suggest "stitching" but got distracted while typing and forgot. My wife was panicking because there is a SPIDER on the kitchen ceiling (I think we speak a slightly different language. We call that "tacking". To me, "stitching" is running short beads at right angles to a straight weld to releive heat/chill stress and reduce the chance of cracks especially in thin higher tensile steel or when there are vibrations) I still think my comment that TIG will generally causes less warping is correct. Maybe I should have explained why. A TIG welder set at the correct amps for the thickness and type of metal will generally cause less warping because the TIG arc very quickly heats a very small area, and as you suggest, move to another area and don't come back until it has cooled.. When welding with oxy and using high melting point rods a much larger area of metal is heated and hence more distortion. When welding up a cylinder you will not get as much obvious distortion as you would joining large flat surfaces. Would you agree other Pete?

BIODIESEL now that is interesting. I had contemplated using it but didn't realise it was an accepted heat transfer liquid. My still runs on biodiesel so I could gradually cycle it through my heating jacket before I burn it, then it won't have time to degrade. My current still is direct fired but my next build will be a stripping still with a biodiesel oil jacket.

In my experience TIG will give very little warping. Before I posted this I checked my welds, I could feel them with my hand but they are hardly visible. That is on an 18 inch tapering cylinder. (cone) I also joined a thicker sheet by brazing with phosphor bronze but got quite a lot of warping. I don't think I posted about corrosion with dis-similar metals, maybe you read my mind. A suggestion about the flanges that may not be perfectly flat after you weld them on: Bolt them together without a gasket then weld on. If you do get any warps they will be in both rings and as long as you always bolt up with the same alignment, the casket gap should be very even.

Absinthe Pete, I am sorry to say that I think you misread the Cole-Parmer tech data. this is a cut and paste "Explanation of Footnotes 1. Satisfactory to 72°F (22°C) 2. Satisfactory to 120°F (48°C)" I assume this is similar to what you read. This is a general statement for all the items, if you look under Neoprene there are no footnotes. I actually cut this note from the compatibility of COPPER and ETHYL ALCOHOL. I am sure you would agree that a copper still can run at above 120 F Edit, To Nick, Thanks for the backup, you posted a few seconds before me. No offence taken Absinthe Pete, it has generated some good research and discussion.

Absinthe Pete, I tried to open that Coleparmer link but my computer locked up! So while I was waiting to reboot I rang the guy who sold it to me. He looked up the specs in a book while I waited, it said 120 C. No doubt. Maybe this o-ring product is a different formulation from the Coleparmer product.

I am not joking, but please note I did say "I am not sure if it is the best product but I used closed cell neoprene foam o-ring" (the outside surface of this product is sealed, not open like a cushion foam) I went to 3 gasket suppliers and this is the best option they came up with. Firstly, what physical or chemical properties are wrong with these? Secondly, what would you or anyone else recommend for a soft gasket? I boiled some of the o-ring for a few minutes to check it did not taint the water or my nose before I used the neoprene. If I have stuffed up thankyou for pointing it out, ps. I am now not certain they said neoprene was good to 140 C, but I am sure it was well over 100 C

Here is something to thing about with your non-cork seal. Your flanges are made from reasonably thin stainless and the mating surfaces will be far from perfectly flat. This means you will need a fairly thick compressible gasket. I had the same problem. But it was very east to solve and I am very happy with the result. I am not sure if it is the best product but I used closed cell neoprene foam o-ring. I was told it was good to 140 deg C. I just measured the length and cut the ends at an angle and glued together with superglue. There is probably better glue but that is all I had. In your case I suggest you place the o-ring just outside the bolt holes, sit the top on and fit the bolts but leave the nuts quite loose. The weight of the column will be enough to compress the soft o-ring to give a good seal. (I have seen a still made by a boilermaker and he used half inch diameter stainless bolts on 2, half inch thick machined flanges. Looks impressive to some but there is no need.) This is not a pressure vessel, there should not be more than 1 or so psi in there One very good safety feature about the soft o-ring and loose bolts is that if there is any overpressure the o-ring will get blown out in one spot and releive the pressure. If the nuts are loose the top can also lift slightly. The only reason to have bolts is to prevent the top falling over if it gets bumped. If you get a negative pressure inside the still the o-ring will probably get pushed into the still between the bolts by atmospheric pressure, and prevent your still from imploding. This negative pressure releif will work best if the flanges are not perfect. The atmosphere will push down on the top of the still compressing the gasket and making it tighter. An uneven flange will have a weak spot where the o-ring can push into the still. You should have your normal safety valves of course, this is just an extra backup.

Those open top ss drums and lids with gaskets sound like the perfect start for a cheap safe still. You could design the lids to lift and releive any overpressure. The easiest but VERY redneck design would be to throw the clamps away and pile some bricks on the lid until the gasket sealed. I guarantee it would be miles safer than a fancy ASME certified pressure valve. Much neater, but maybe not quite so foolproof, would be a set of adjustable springs around the lid.

HedgeBird said "The acetylene/air torch I am looking at has the “MC" or "B" Tank Connections. Seems like it would work good for at least the smaller connections, and possible for the larger ones if I back it up with a helper on a second torch." For the money you think you will save, it will be well worth buying yourself an 0xy/propane torch with a big tip. If it is too big you can always turn it down but you can never turn a small one up far enough. Acetylene and propane tips are slightly different but will work with the other gas, although not quite as well. In Australia we rent the oxy and acetylene bottles by the month. Don't know if US is similar. If you use propane you can use your own cylinder and save one rental. Oxt/acet or oxy propane produce similar heat.

Nick, I think there may be a few of us who would like to find out more about the de-foamer.

Don't be too hasty pulling them. If you read the posts carefully you will see that it was only Max Action who directly criticised your still. All the other posts were about general still safety. Although I don't agree with the way you did it, Well done Max for stirring up a very important topic. Paul, your still has an extra visual/audible warning device that only a redneck would recognise. When this type of drum builds up pressure the ends start to bulge = visual warning. As the ends bulge you will often (but not always) hear quite a loud bang = audible warning. This happens all the time with sealed empty steel drums that are in the sun. They bulge and bang long before they rupture. This same principal also works if a partial vaccuum is created, the ends start to cave in and go BANG By the time you see or hear a $100,000 still expanding, contracting or banging it is too late.

That would depend on the size of your propane torch. I have a couple of very large ones. But I will admit I did use oxy/propane torch for my preheating. Just tried to save a few typed words but ended up with more. Also straight propane flame goes out when used inside the still because it very quickly consumes all the oxygen, then one could end up with an explosive mix inside when the oxygen returns.

From the images on their web site it looks very like soft solder, on all the joints

If you look at the cap, it has what looks like a ring of solder on it a few inches up from the bottom. Looks like this was soldered to the edge of the cone with no flange. A weak joint but in this instance a handy safety device, if my observations are correct.

I totally agree with Absinthe Pete. Don't use solder, even silver solder. A biolermaker / stillmaker told me that alcohol eventually eats holes in silver solder. When welding large sheets you might find it helpful to get someone to heat the joint with a propane torch, just in front of your weld. (now I am half expecting someone to come back and say propane and TIG shield gas don't work together? It worked OK for me) I don't know what gear you have, but don't use a small TIG. IF you manage to get a good weld it will be very slow and frustrating

If anyone gets the full story on what happened please let us know. In the meantime there is some evidence from the photos and the story. It looks as if the still is made from very thin copper and the joints are made with soft solder.( not containing lead I hope) Soft solder may be OK for a one gallon still but not one that big. If it was soft solder, that is probably what let go and spilled alcohol onto the flame. But then it may have been the soft solder that saved them from a powerful explosion. An explosion will generate a lot of pressure in a strongly welded still, but a still with weak joints will let go before much pressure builds up which doesn't make much of a bang. I could go on for a few pages on what makes a good explosion but I hope you get the basics of what I have written. Some friendly advice to those who wish to build their own stills: The stronger you make them, the bigger and better your pressure releif devices need to be.

That sounds like a good idea Rosie. It should for SAFETY standards but very little to do with ARTISTIC standards

I suspect some of the first in the shakeout will be those that spent too much capital on un-necessarily good looking stills.

Find some photos of finished still on my website http://www.belgrovedistillery.com.au/ website is about to be upgraded I estimate that well over half the labour in building my still was to make it look "pretty". Grinding off welds makes them weaker and polishing the outside won't make it run better. If you want a cheap still it probably won't look so good but that doesn't mean it is unsafe.

Well done Paul. I am also the Aussie version of Hilbilly or Redneck and I built my own still. But, partly in defence of Max Action, I was also concerned initially with no obvious pressure relief, which you say is now fixed. I think Max should have had the courtesy to ask a few questions before tearing strips off you I totally agree with PANOSCAPE " I'd love to see one of these produce an award winning spirit that trumps a shiny and pretty $60K still... if run right, I believe it can."

My contact in the Australian Excise department told me they accept AlcoDens as a calculation tool. The quote below is from the help menu of the current version of AlcoDens "We believe the accuracy of the conversions is more than sufficient for doing process design calculations. However, because of the differing regulations in different countries, you will have to evaluate for yourself if it is good enough for trade and excise requirements in your area. AlcoDens has been tested against tabulated data and the following maximum and typical errors have been found when calculating densities from known concentrations. Obviously the maximums are the worst results we found - there may be worse cases but they are unlikely to be significantly different from those shown below. We believe the accuracy of the conversions is more than sufficient for doing process design calculations. However, because of the differing regulations in different countries, you will have to evaluate for yourself if it is good enough for trade and excise requirements in your area. AlcoDens has been tested against tabulated data and the following maximum and typical errors have been found when calculating densities from known concentrations. Obviously the maximums are the worst results we found - there may be worse cases but they are unlikely to be significantly different from those shown below. Temperature Strength Max.Error Average Error Celsius Mass% kg/m3 kg/m3 10 - 40 0 - 25 0.046 0.018 10 - 40 25 – 100 0.030 0.012 40 - 100 0 - 100 0.380 0.090

How are you converting starch to sugars? You have mentioned most things except malted grain and/or enzymes or? Also, if your grain has had only one third of the water added before you drain the "sticky stuff" = wort, you will have left a lot of the "sticky stuff" behind with the grain.

Hi Brad, In this part of the world (Tasmania) all the other distillers make a "Scotch " style and they take pride in being able to leave their wash for several days after fermentation has finished gassing. They claim it makes a better whisky.

Finally got it to work thanks. The original file must have been too big.

Hi Erik. No one appears to want to have a crack at answering your enquires. You may have asked too many questions in one post! To get the ball rolling I will give you my 2 cents worth then hopefully others will make improvements. I make 100% rye but I malt my own and use it green at about 25% 18% malted rye should be sufficient. I have heard of large distilleries using 10% barley malt. I beleive rye malt has more DP than barley so 18% should cover it easily. I have never tried starting at low temperature to reduce balling but I would be fairly certain you would be correct. In my experience add the rye very quickly to reduce balling. If it is added slowly the flour/grist soaks up the water so when the last of the flour is added the water has become a paste and cannot soak into the last addition. I don't know exactly how your agitator works. I found my agitator needs some assistance with breaking up larger balls. I used to use a small garden fork as if it was a kitchen whisk. I have now made very industrial whisk that works a treat breaking up the larger balls that are floating near the surface The coarser the rye flour/grist the less balling. I once tried a stepped mash with a protein rest and I did not see any reduction in viscosity. But I am not saying it won't work for you. I can't heat my mash tun easily so I start with a strike temp of around 90c (194 F) and drop from there. Starting high will kill most nasties in my grain if there are any. Many people say beta glucans cause the gumminess in rye but I am not so sure. I read somewhere that arabinoxylans are the culprit. Xylanase should help if you can bring yourself to use some.