Issues with a small equipment supplier

[ImaBadFishTwo]

Thank you for this post

[richard1]

I am not going pee on anyone's parade here other than to comment on the later thread of the post purely because it's of current interest to me and that is use of an E-Stop .....EMERGENCY STOP.

 

Use of an E-Stop has merits and in my system I have linked it only to the VSD for the agitator and the phase angle relay / power regulator for the 3 phase heating elements.  Nothing more because I further need the PLC to initiate shut down when the E-Stop is pressed.

 

So to the basis of the post.  My EStop is directly mounted with an HMI on the still.  It is further connected through an isolation barrier on the way to the PLC.  The PLC with control instrumentation and related power control are mounted  in seperate panels +- 5m (20') away from the still.  The intent here is to consider aspects of Atex / Ex requirements.

 

So I ask because I in general never see it being done. ..... How many people make use of Ex rated instrumentation and isolation barriers for distilling. ?????  Suppliers thump their chest saying Nema 4 enclosures etc. but are never further compliant. !!!

[Thatch]

5 hours ago, richard1 said:

So I ask because I in general never see it being done. ..... How many people make use of Ex rated instrumentation and isolation barriers for distilling. ?????  Suppliers thump their chest saying Nema 4 enclosures etc. but are never further compliant. !!!

Stills built in the US are not likely to be ATEX compliant just as stills built in Europe are not likely to comply with US specifications.

• ATEX is a uniquely European Union directive for protection against explosive atmospheres.
• No. It’s not harmonized with NFPA combustible dust standards and not considered by OSHA an acceptable certification for electrical equipment used in hazardous locations.

[Southernhighlander]

12 hours ago, richard1 said:

 

 

So I ask because I in general never see it being done. ..... How many people make use of Ex rated instrumentation and isolation barriers for distilling. ?????  Suppliers thump their chest saying Nema 4 enclosures etc. but are never further compliant. !!!

In the USA NEMA 4 enclosures can be used inside a C1D2 classified area as long as the internal components are non arcing.  Our control panels have arcing components inside, however they go outside the C1D2 which is 25" or farther from the still above 18" off the floor.  We use UL listed explosion proof motors and enclosures where we are required to.  As has already been pointed out, ATEX ratings are no acceptable in the US and of course CE listed devices are not accepted here either.  

[Moonshiner11]

44 minutes ago, Southernhighlander said:

In the USA NEMA 4 enclosures can be used inside a C1D2 classified area as long as the internal components are non arcing.  Our control panels have arcing components inside, however they go outside the C1D2 which is 25" or farther from the still above 18" off the floor.  We use UL listed explosion proof motors and enclosures where we are required to.  As has already been pointed out, ATEX ratings are no acceptable in the US and of course CE listed devices are not accept here either.  

How do you go "outside the c1d2" when c1d2 clearly states "non arcing"??? I think it's funny you boast about your controllers which are easy to build. Yet I have high end options that are ARC FREE. I'm going to give you the option, Paul @ "AFFORDABLE" distilling, to stop commenting on this thread. Otherwise I'm going to yours and filling these customers in on how if they are spending $20k or more it's very easy to order their own Chinese still and wait your 6 month delivery date, all while cutting you (the middle man) out. I'm tired of seeing you push this ticket. If you want more info on ARC free controllers, buy another one of mine so you can copy it again.  Just dont try to return it this time. 

[richard1]

Sorry I am out of here.  I asked an honest question.

 

Cheers.

[Southernhighlander]

2 hours ago, Moonshiner11 said:

How do you go "outside the c1d2" when c1d2 clearly states "non arcing"??? 

That's easy to answer.  Over 18" above the floor, the C1 D2 extends out 24" away from any part of the still, so you simply put the control panel outside the C1D2 area.

[esten88]

So Jason asked his customers on this Facebook group to write reviews on this post about him. So here was my experience.
I was in the NICU with my 2nd child for 2 months which finally gave me some time to research and figure out who i wanted to buy from. I will say he is a good salesman.  I like what he had to say about his products and he projects his knowledge on his FB group. So i purchased a $2700 still paid in full. I used paypal to pay, it had been years since i had used paypal, so my address was out of date and wrong. After I had ordered i asked him to ship it to my place of work because there had been some porch thieves in my neighborhood.  He responded he could not, he had to ship it to the paypal address or he would lose his seller protection.  Ok i get that, then i figured out my paypal had the wrong address.  When i brought this to his attention he unwilling to work with me on alternative options short of me paying to return the items he had already shipped, and also paying to ship everything back to me. It was all about him protecting himself. I was trying to come up with ideas how to fix this issue so i asked him to  send me another invoice and refund the first one since i had updated my address on PayPal. He was not willing to do this. So here comes my $2700 still delivered to a house I have nothing to do with. That was fun, taking time off work to go to the post office to pick up my packages. Then he didn't tell me the boiler ( shipped from another company) was coming so it sat on the porch of my old house for 7 days without me knowing. Luckily the people living there left it outside because it was not their package. That was the issues i had just getting the still. 

As far as his Customer service.  I was told a 4 week lead time, it took 11 weeks. This was a complex still i had never used before so I asked him some questions on how to control Proof, all i got was 2 word answers. I started asking other still builders for help, they all were happy to! There was no water line Diagram so I had no idea how to run the water, had to ask for it. The P.I.D controller come with no instructions, not a big deal solved with a Google search but why not send the instructions.

Control box.  Pretty nice only issue i have is when i touch the fan guard, i get shocked. The 2nd time I used it, the thermocouple wire broke, when i asked him about it he couldn't have care less and pushed me to the manufacturer. In my opinion, he sold it to me he is responsible.

The still: Sweet set up was happy with the design.  The things that bothered me are the holes cut out of the column for the sight glass were not filed smooth, so u can't wipe them down or the burs catch cloth strings and leave a mess. Seemed lazy to not make it smooth. One of the sight glass has a small hole in the weld that you can see Air bubbles leaking in he did offer to fix this but i had to ship it to him at my expense. The elbows on lyne arm were crooked, seems to me this could have been solved by putting it on a flat surface before soldering. Instead of fixing it i just bent the parrot arm to make it level. Most of this stuff i did not bring up to him because i did not to pay to ship it back and hope he sends it my new house and not my old one. ( that seller protection is more important then customer service )
The way Jason talks about his products you would think your getting Vendome quality but then again he never has anything good to say about any other builder, there all trash compared to his stuff. ( not even anything positive about Jon Zajac )  People ask me all the time  who build my still or where did i get it. I have to respond with i would rather not say because i don't not want to advertise for him.
Im sure Jason will see this post and blast me like he does anyone who gives feedback but i have our whole conversation saved in FB messenger,  i will be posting these and other pics for my proof.

[Moonshiner11]

I referred you to auber because they hold the warranty on those parts and are very helpful when it comes to addressing issues with them. You wanted me to refund an order that items already shipped on. YOUR PAYPAL IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY! Anyone who uses it knows how it works. After the way you spoke to me, I was done helping you. Funny you are clearly still in my FB group. I apologized for the wire coming loose, shipping can be hard on solder when its connected to a fuse. Its extremely amazing of thousands of people in over a decade i have all 4 people who supposedly had a bad experience.  Most of them I had problems with THE ENTIRE time I was filling their order, so yes... there are going to be hundreds of comments coming here to give HONEST feedback. 

[esten88]

Seller protection is more important the customer service. Seller protection gets you those return customers. You asked your customers for reviews on Feb 18th, i can see those hundreds of people flooding here to give that "honest" feedback. Great attack BTW. Why would you take a review and try to learn from it like a real business owner. This is something i would expect from Jon Zajac. 

[Moonshiner11]

13 minutes ago, esten88 said:

Seller protection is more important the customer service. Seller protection gets you those return customers. You asked your customers for reviews on Feb 18th, i can see those hundreds of people flooding here to give that "honest" feedback. Great attack BTW. Why would you take a review and try to learn from it like a real business owner. This is something i would expect from Jon Zajac. 

This isn't an honest review. I just screenshot our ENTIRE conversation. Ill be posting that as soon as I figure out how to load the correct file sizes here.  Even after this supposed incident you tried to order more parts. Then you come back to my Facebook page, right after this and thank me for the wealth of knowledge you learned from MY page. In that previous purchase conversation you never mention unfiled copper edges. 

[esten88]

Post what ever you want, nothing i said is not true. I could post it for you if you need me too. Yes I tried to buy additional products from you. What does that have to do with the way you treat people? I like how your fixed on the shipping, you have nothing to say about your quality of your product. Oh and BTW, i thanked the members of your group, not you... i have that screenshot too if you need to see it since you kicked me.

[Moonshiner11]

I'm not going to reply to the quality of my products.  TO THIS DAY NOTHING has come back because a customer wasn't happy with the quality.  INCLUDING YOU!!! And my members didn't save all that knowledge you used. I did. Feel free to post the conversation. Just make sure its the ENTIRE conversation,  not your version.  

[esten88]

7 minutes ago, Moonshiner11 said:

I'm not going to reply to the quality of my products.  TO THIS DAY NOTHING has come back because a customer wasn't happy with the quality.  INCLUDING YOU!!! And my members didn't save all that knowledge you used. I did. Feel free to post the conversation. Just make sure its the ENTIRE conversation,  not your version.  

i cant afford to ship everything back to you so you can fix it. I mean did you look my pics/vids. how can you say you don't have quality issues. Are you saying it was just my still you built half ass? Every time you post you just prove my point. My advice is if you cant handle reviews/feedback don't ask for it Jon, i mean Jason. Hey man, you got my money so you won.

[Moonshiner11]

42 minutes ago, esten88 said:

i cant afford to ship everything back to you so you can fix it. I mean did you look my pics/vids. how can you say you don't have quality issues. Are you saying it was just my still you built half ass? Every time you post you just prove my point. My advice is if you cant handle reviews/feedback don't ask for it Jon, i mean Jason. Hey man, you got my money so you won.

You can't afford to ship anything back? I typically pay that shipping,  unless you are trying to screw me ( PayPal). If that was actually leaking you would have had no choice  but for me to fix it. Yet I never had to fix it. I for one would NEVER have a continued conversation for weeks/years with someone i was so disappointed in doing business with. I would 100% have ended this before it started before dealing with this, look back at other posts here, or the fb group... he'll last week I ditched a sale for a custom build that was unsafe. Tomorrow you are going to look pretty petty.  

2 hours ago, esten88 said:

Seller protection is more important the customer service. Seller protection gets you those return customers. You asked your customers for reviews on Feb 18th, i can see those hundreds of people flooding here to give that "honest" feedback. Great attack BTW. Why would you take a review and try to learn from it like a real business owner. This is something i would expect from Jon Zajac. 

This isn't an honest review. I just screenshot our ENTIRE conversation. Ill be posting that as soon as I figure out how to load the correct file sizes here.  Even after this supposed incident you tried to order more parts. Then you come back to my Facebook page, right after this and thank me for the wealth of knowledge you learned from MY page. In that previous purchase conversation you never mention unfiled copper edges. 

[Teddysad]

Coming in a little late on this must my thoughts.

buying an item so you can copy and make the same unit sounds pretty underhand, let alone blatant cheek,of then trying to return for refund.

 

I have had dealings with Schnapps Stills for several years and every purchase I have received has been A1. I am in the land of the free(dom to distill) but that distance has not stopped anything from being a cordial relationship

I suspect sour grapes and business skullduggery at afoot 

[DrDistillation]

4 hours ago, Teddysad said:

Coming in a little late on this must my thoughts.

buying an item so you can copy and make the same unit sounds pretty underhand, let alone blatant cheek,of then trying to return for refund.

 

I have had dealings with Schnapps Stills for several years and every purchase I have received has been A1. I am in the land of the free(dom to distill) but that distance has not stopped anything from being a cordial relationship

I suspect sour grapes and business skullduggery at afoot 

I have no coin or loyalty in this "debate/conversation" but only looking at it from a 3rd party standpoint.

Concerning the copy: I think that was just an allegation without any proof. The two controllers are built quite differently, so not sure how one was copied from the other.

I believe your last line is correct.  I've also know people who have purchase from the two different vendors most active in this thread with good comments about both.  If you sell enough products (of anything) you will have a customer or two who go out of their way to slander or give you a very hard time.  It's just law of averages, but how you rise to these types of things says a lot about character IMHO.

One thing however that doesn't look good is the multiple logins (shill accounts) to give reviews of one's own products. That is pretty obvious in this thread and doesn't look good.

BTW, I know your username from other forums but you should make a post in the intro section here as well.

[Steelhorse]

I just was reading all these replies on here and wanted to share my thoughts. I got a still set up from Jason Schnap with the PID controller. The craftsmanship was too notch. I did not have one issue with his customer service nor craftsmanship of the still. Everything was shipped and packaged well. Everything was accounted for and in perfect working conditions. Me personally could not be happier with everything I got. I had my share of questions for him and Jason never gave me the run-around and very professional. I would go thru Jason again if I need another setup to expand. I know people have there pissing matches but there are always 2 sides to the story. I've been dealing with Jason for some years now and has never let me down and I'm from PA. So before y'all jump on the band wagon and bashing a respectable still builder you need to find facts outof both side. Thanks for listening. Y'all have a good day. 

[Vinoman13]

I have had several companies build distilling equipment for me and I will say that Jason at Schnapp Stills has always been very fair price wise and anything he has built for me was built on time and very high quality !!  I would recommend him to anyone looking for great distillery equipment. 
Joe Semansky jr

Red Horse Distillery