DenverDistiller Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 We are trying to decide the best tank to cool our mash for our bourbon (grain in) and rye whiskey (lautered). The goal will be to drop the temperature from about 150 to 80 as quickly as possible. We are considering a 100 gallon conical fermentation tank where we drop in a wort chiller. ($2500) Or A glycol cool jacketed 100 gallon tank. ($5500) I'm more comfortable with the wort chiller as it's a bit cheaper, although our budget would allow us the glycol jacketed tank if it would be a significant help. What do you-all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glisade Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 We built three of these to cool our 300 gallon all corn grain-in mash from about 140F to 80F in about 1 to 1.5 hours. The mash goes through the coils and the coils sit in a drum filled with cold city water. Each coil costs about $250 for the copper coil plus hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iskiebaedistillery Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 $2500 seems like an awful lot for a drop in wort chiller for a 100 gallon mash tun, unless I'm missing something. Do you have a glycol chiller that you use for other cooling purposes? If not, I would factor the actual chiller and glycol into the equation for the jacketed tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenverDistiller Posted January 24, 2016 Author Share Posted January 24, 2016 ISkie, $2000 is for the tank - we would build (or buy) the copper coils to drop in the fermentation tank. We should have our still and DSP 2/15 so this will be our first fermentation tank. We do not have a glycol chiller Glisade - what's the diameter of your tubing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glisade Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I think about 14". We bought 60' long, 3/4" diameter coils from lowes and used a 5 gallon barrel as our guide to create the coils. They fit in 55 gallon drums but we use 2 100 gallon drums and 1 55 gallon drum and connect them all in series between our tun and fermenter. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iskiebaedistillery Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 ISkie, $2000 is for the tank - we would build (or buy) the copper coils to drop in the fermentation tank. We should have our still and DSP 2/15 so this will be our first fermentation tank. We do not have a glycol chiller Glisade - what's the diameter of your tubing? Ok gotcha,that makes more sense. I plan to go the same route as glisade with the wort chillers. I have a 200 and 300 gallon fermentation tank. We are still in the process of the building renovation, so you are closer than me. Please keep me updated on how whatever you choose works. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohninWV Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 No offense, and completely off topic, but Denver Distiller is the forum name of someone that's been here for years. It would be awfully nice of you to consider a change of screen name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrounge Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Crazy!!!!!!! There is no way I would try and pump my grain in mash through a 3/4" tube! That's wild. Are you super fine flour? Or how do you do that? My mash tun has a separate cooling jacket. If I lauter I go into a fermenter with an agitator and use the cooling jacket on it to cool to pitching temp. I could see cooling water in the coil but pumping mash through a 3/4 " tube gives me anxiety!! Haha I keep rereading it and that's what you say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humulus Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I agree..maybe a 2" tube for mash. I've had good success in the past transferring 500 gallons(grain in)to an open vessel with agitator on top and 1.5" tubes inside(counter flow water chiller). Water was collected in totes and then transferred through the chiller to another empty tote. Keep it moving or a gel will form on the drop in chiller decreasing your heat transfer dramatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glisade Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 All our transfer hoses are 1" diameter and the coils are 3/4". It works. We've had clogs a few times but it was mostly operator error. We have a good air diaphragm pump to move everything. Our corn is milled and screened through a 14 mesh. We're also moving a 33 gallon beer so not as thick as some others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Thermal Consulting Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 For a smaller mash cooker, a cooling jacket probably is easiest. I have few reconditioned chillers that if you are tight on $$ or new that include 5 year compressor warranty. See my website for photos and I can send other distillery photos. Regards, Mike Gronski 770-995-4066 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iskiebaedistillery Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 glissade, do you have any more info on the pump you are using to circulate the wort through the chiller? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glisade Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 glissade, do you have any more info on the pump you are using to circulate the wort through the chiller? Thanks! It's an All-Flo model# SE-10-X44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iskiebaedistillery Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Thank you glisade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluestone Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Artisan Still Design recommends a wort chiller for batches 300 gallons or larger. It cuts cooling time considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestar Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Artisan Still Design recommends a wort chiller for batches 300 gallons or larger. It cuts cooling time considerably. We use something similar for our corn and rye mashes, works fine. The one shown looks like it is design for single pass through. We have a one turn heat exchanger that we cycle through until get to temp, whether heating or cooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Thermal Consulting Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Just curious why aren't you pumping the glycol/chilled water inside the tubes? You can agitate the mash tun to push the mash around the tubes and create the heat transfer required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iskiebaedistillery Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Artisan Still Design recommends a wort chiller for batches 300 gallons or larger. It cuts cooling time considerably. 300 gallons? 20 gallons of mash can take well over 24 hours to get down to pitching temp without a chiller. Unless you are saying the heat exchanger pictured is meant for systems more than 300 gallons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenny Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 300 gallons? 20 gallons of mash can take well over 24 hours to get down to pitching temp without a chiller. Unless you are saying the heat exchanger pictured is meant for systems more than 300 gallons? I had reached out to AS about that hx -- pretty sure Bluestone was insinuating that it the pictured heat exchanger would be appropriate for chilling batches of 300+ in size. I had considered that exact unit for a 600 gallon batch. Opted for a really nice used unit that I found locally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluestone Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 With sufficient coolant flow and temps it would be possible to just put that wort chiller inline between mash tun and fermenter and do a single pass. Another option is to recirculate the wort back into the mash tun until the exiting wort is at the correct temp and then redirect into the fermenter. 300 gallons? 20 gallons of mash can take well over 24 hours to get down to pitching temp without a chiller. Unless you are saying the heat exchanger pictured is meant for systems more than 300 gallons? My answer was in response to the original question. ASD standard sizes include 150 gallon and 300 gallon systems. For 150 and smaller we find that the mash tun jackets provide enough surface area to cool quickly. For 300 gallon and larger that isn't the case and so we recommend the wort chiller pictured. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluestone Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I had reached out to AS about that hx -- pretty sure Bluestone was insinuating that it the pictured heat exchanger would be appropriate for chilling batches of 300+ in size. I had considered that exact unit for a 600 gallon batch. Opted for a really nice used unit that I found locally. Posting same time. Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iskiebaedistillery Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I had reached out to AS about that hx -- pretty sure Bluestone was insinuating that it the pictured heat exchanger would be appropriate for chilling batches of 300+ in size. I had considered that exact unit for a 600 gallon batch. Opted for a really nice used unit that I found locally. With sufficient coolant flow and temps it would be possible to just put that wort chiller inline between mash tun and fermenter and do a single pass. Another option is to recirculate the wort back into the mash tun until the exiting wort is at the correct temp and then redirect into the fermenter. My answer was in response to the original question. ASD standard sizes include 150 gallon and 300 gallon systems. For 150 and smaller we find that the mash tun jackets provide enough surface area to cool quickly. For 300 gallon and larger that isn't the case and so we recommend the wort chiller pictured. Ok gotcha, thanks for clearing that up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Thermal Consulting Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 With 50F water, you can get a 500 Gal mash done with 30 GPM closed loop chiller and a shell and tube HX. So with 50 Gal mash and cold enough city water (55F and colder), you should be in-like-Flynn with enough copper...or you can move the mash between a jacketed fermenter and a small in line exchanger back and forth. I think everyone is kinda beatin' around the same bush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWY 101 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Bluestone, what is the cost of the wort chiller you have pictured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshGreenDoor Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Artisan Still Design recommends a wort chiller for batches 300 gallons or larger. It cuts cooling time considerably. Whats this chiller cost from ASD? Seems like a solid design, and effective for most start-up distilleries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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