Blending/ Proofing tank

[pogriallais]

Good afternoon all,

Does anyone have any recommendations or tips on specifications for a spirit proofing tank. 

i.e manway positioning top/side; height/ level gauge etc.

I'm planning on getting a 2000 litre vessel.

I know some people proof by weight but I have always done it by volume.

Is there any issue with blending different spirits such as gin and whiskey in the same tanks as long as proper C.I.P is used?

[HottyToddy77]

I was thinking of getting a stainless tote

[Southernhighlander]

If you are doing gin it is best to have a dedicated tank for it, but you can do multiple spirits in the same tank as gin but you must clean really well or you might get gin flavors in your whiskey.   W sell new transtore tanks at a lower price than buying direct from the factory.  You can blend and store in the transtore tanks.  these Tanks are UL listed and are legal to store spirits in.  We can add CIP if you like.  We could also add an explosion proof agitator and we have sold them with jackets for use as fermenters.  They are made in the USA.  We have other tanks as well.  Please see the picture and drawing below of the 550 gallon.  Also these totes are stackable which can really save on space.

 

 

 

 

[FaintingGoatSpirits]

25 minutes ago, Southernhighlander said:

If you are doing gin it is best to have a dedicated tank for it, but you can do multiple spirits in the same tank as gin but you must clean really well or you might get gin flavors in your whiskey.   W sell new transtore tanks at a lower price than buying direct from the factory.  You can blend and store in the transtore tanks.  these Tanks are UL listed and are legal to store spirits in.  We can add CIP if you like.  We could also add an explosion proof agitator and we have sold them with jackets for use as fermenters.  They are made in the USA.  We have other tanks as well.  Please see the picture and drawing below of the 550 gallon.  Also these totes are stackable which can really save on space.

 

 

 

 

What kind of price are you looking at for a 350 gallon or so with agitator and CIP?

[Tom Lenerz]

2 hours ago, pogriallais said:

Good afternoon all,

Does anyone have any recommendations or tips on specifications for a spirit proofing tank. 

i.e manway positioning top/side; height/ level gauge etc.

I'm planning on getting a 2000 litre vessel.

I know some people proof by weight but I have always done it by volume.

Is there any issue with blending different spirits such as gin and whiskey in the same tanks as long as proper C.I.P is used?

Consider a jacket and insulation if you will cold stabilize or chill filter.

Consider air-driven agitator for mixing.

I'd minimize things on the side to clean, especially with a 2000 liter, you can easily enter the top if you need to scrub. 

Do it by weight, it makes things so much easier. 

CIP should knock out any flavors of gin on stainless, you might want to look at having separate gaskets for herbal and non-herbal spirits though.

[Southernhighlander]

I will have a quote for you Monday for the CIP and the air driven ex agitator.  Would you like a qoute for the compressor to run the agitator? Would you like us to quote for cooling and insulation jackets as well?  If you will be chilling the tank we could do dimple jackets for the cooling.  The silver blanket insulation does not look too bad and it would cost you a great deal less than insulation jackets, but we could do cooling jackets and insulation jackets if you want.  The great thing about us is that we can pretty much do anything that you want within reason.

[dhdunbar]

You are inviting trouble if you cut to bottling proof by volume.  All gauges for tax determination must be done by weight, or approve flow meter, because that is more accurate than gauges by volume.  See 19.183 (a) "Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (b) of this section, if the proprietor uses a tank to determine the distilled spirits tax imposed by 26 U.S.C. 5001, the tank must be mounted on scales and the contents of the tank must be determined by weight. The scale tank also must be equipped with a suitable device so that the volume of the contents can be quickly and accurately determined."  Then the (b) exception, "The requirement to mount tanks on scales does not apply to tanks having a capacity of 55 gallons or less. Such tanks may be moved onto an accurately calibrated scale when a tax determination gauge needs to be made."

Yes, I know that the mounting rule that is usually not observed, and that the bottling tank gauge arguable is not a tax determination gauge, but it arguable is.  Since the tax is determined on the basis of the label proof, the cut in the bottling tank determines whether the label proof is accurate as a gauge. 

Note that TTB says that the cut in the bottling tank must be at exactly the label proof.  There is no tolerance.  See ATF Ruling 75-32, (https://www.ttb.gov/rulings/75-32.htm):

Held, where the minimum bottling proof for various classes and types of distilled spirits prescribed in 27 CFR 5.22 is 80 degrees of proof, the bottling proof of any spirits to be bottled at that proof must be set exactly at such proof in the bottling tank. However, where, through no fault of the proprietor, there is a subsequent loss of proof in the bottling process of not more than three-tenths of a degree of proof, the bottled product retains its eligibility to be labeled in accordance with the class and type prescribed. Conversely, any shading of the proof of any such product through deliberate acts or negligence on the part of the bottler which results in the product being less than 80 proof would render the product ineligible for its original designation and subject it to being labeled as a "Diluted Product." 

Whoa!  Is TTB likely to enforce that?  I think it is unlikely in practice.  But this is more than a wonky distinction.  Practically speaking, cutting to bottling proof by volume is not going to be as accurate as cutting by weight.  You are faced with inaccuracies on the calibration of the tank that do not occur when you gauge by weight.  And it is a lot easier to get a scale recalibrated than it is to get a tank recalibrated.  Proof of that?  Check out the yellow pages.  

[Southernhighlander]

Fainting goat,

 

My agitator guy has today off.  He will get back to me tomorrow and I will get back to you when he does.

 

Thank you

[Southernhighlander]

fainting goat,

 

The price for the 350 gallon with a 1.5 hp ex sanitary air agitator with shaft, impellers and 2 cip spinner spray balls you are looking at $4,995.00 

[nabtastic]

OP - go by weight.  Take Dehner's comments to heart.  He probably (literally) knows the regs better than some TTB officers.  

Also, get a side port for racking spirits (especially if cold stabilizing) and sampling.  The air driven agitator is also very handy for proofing in bulk.  You'll definitely want CIP and a top manway.  Personally, I prefer full drain conical bottoms for active use (proofing, macerating, etc) and the IBC tanks for storing/transporting.. I can't tell if the ones above are flat or not.  I'm not knocking your stuff btw Southern - I may hit you up for storing and transporting our bulk spirits (we have a 90 rest on white spirits) in the near future.  

Side question - how high can you stack those totes with spirits (70%ABV +)?  I was thinking there was a 9' limit. 

[Southernhighlander]

16 hours ago, nabtastic said:

OP - go by weight.  Take Dehner's comments to heart.  He probably (literally) knows the regs better than some TTB officers.  

Also, get a side port for racking spirits (especially if cold stabilizing) and sampling.  The air driven agitator is also very handy for proofing in bulk.  You'll definitely want CIP and a top manway.  Personally, I prefer full drain conical bottoms for active use (proofing, macerating, etc) and the IBC tanks for storing/transporting.. I can't tell if the ones above are flat or not.  I'm not knocking your stuff btw Southern - I may hit you up for storing and transporting our bulk spirits (we have a 90 rest on white spirits) in the near future.  

Side question - how high can you stack those totes with spirits (70%ABV +)?  I was thinking there was a 9' limit. 

We can actually build custom tanks anyway that you want.  hemi bottom and or top, side manway, cip including plumbing and pump or whatever you need.  We have existing designs with all of those options as well.