Filtering Through Limestone

[flyhigher87]

Hey guys,

 One of the judges at the ADI conference suggested that I filter my Vodka through limestone.  He said it would add body to my Vodka.  I have also been to distilleries where I saw they filter their Vodka through Activated Carbon and Then through limestone or vice versus.  So I went out and bought a little Calcium Carbonate.  Wikipedia tells me that is what Limestone is.  It came in a powder so I figured I would add a tiny bit to about 500ml of Vodka wait a little and filter it through a coffee filter.  Well now it tastes like Chalk mainly because it has chalk in it.  

Anyone filtering through limestone?  What type do you buy? and how do you do it?

 

Mucho Thanks

[Julius]

Who filters their vodka thru limestone?

[flyhigher87]

I'm not calling anyone out here.  But an ADI Judge whom I assume is a professional with a great deal of experience.  Put it directly in the tasting notes on my Vodka.

"Filter through Limestone it helps alot."

[SLCDBD]

3 hours ago, flyhigher87 said:

 

"Filter through Limestone it helps alot."

He's making that up.

[whiskeytango]

5 hours ago, SLCDBD said:

He's making that up.

Wait you mean a "judge" at a pay to play competition that makes their living by handing out medals doesn't know what he is talking about.  Get out!!  Those guys are legit.   

 

 

[Silk City Distillers]

It'll certainly change the pH.

Maybe there is a marketing angle in that, pH Neutral Vodka.

 

[SLCDBD]

1 hour ago, Silk City Distillers said:

It'll certainly change the pH.

Maybe there is a marketing angle in that, pH Neutral Vodka.

 

Yeah, my first thought was he was shitfaced and meant to say that raising the alkalinity of your proofing water is helpful, but some garbage came out instead

[Julius]

What companies filter thru limestone?

[Silk City Distillers]

Marketers love limestone.

 

[Lenny]

Of all the spirit comps, ADI runs a pretty tight ship. Most of the comps out there are complete bullshit. We enter the ADI comp ever so often and I've seen some absolutely preposterous comments by a few judges.That being said, those wacky comments are tempered by valid constructive criticism. 

Before getting weird with calk, maybe pick up the 'best in class' vodka winner and side by side taste it with your own juice - be super self critical and real about what's going on between the two - adjust (or don't) your process as needed.

[twalshact]

The Whiskey Wash,

"Old Limestone is pumped out of a limestone aquifer 130 feet underground and filtered using reverse osmosis, so the mineral content remains intact.  Keeney reports calcium and magnesium bond with the carbohydrates in alcohol, so when Old Limestone is mixed with bourbon it gives a smoother mouth feel.  In a recent blind taste test, 16 out of 16 people were able to pick out both the branch water alone as well as bourbon and branch made with Old Limestone.

Limestone filtered water makes all the difference in bourbon.  Nothing else comes close."

https://thewhiskeywash.com/whiskey-styles/bourbon/whats-deal-limestone-water/

[Lenny]

5 minutes ago, twalshact said:

The Whiskey Wash,

"Old Limestone is pumped out of a limestone aquifer 130 feet underground and filtered using reverse osmosis, so the mineral content remains intact.  Keeney reports calcium and magnesium bond with the carbohydrates in alcohol, so when Old Limestone is mixed with bourbon it gives a smoother mouth feel.  In a recent blind taste test, 16 out of 16 people were able to pick out both the branch water alone as well as bourbon and branch made with Old Limestone.

Limestone filtered water makes all the difference in bourbon.  Nothing else comes close."

https://thewhiskeywash.com/whiskey-styles/bourbon/whats-deal-limestone-water/

Oof! Please, let's not spread this misnomer that mineral content and a specific ph level (both of which are easily replicated if so desired) has a substantial impact on the flavor profile of a whiskey in comparison to the WAY more impactful aspects of grain selection, fermentation, distillation technique and maturation . The majority of content on whiskeywash.com is of quality but piece is just Kentucky marketing shtick.

[bluefish_dist]

Am I wrong that RO removes the minerals and if they are present is RO treated water they are added after RO?   That's why it's useful for brewing and distilling.  You can remove everything and then build the water you want. 

[Silk City Distillers]

You are right but don’t let the marketers know, it’ll ruin the story.

[Silk City Distillers]

I thought the genesis of the "limestone water" and whiskey linkage had to do with mashing, and not proofing.

Limestone water is higher in Calcium and has higher Carbonate Alkalinity.

Calcium deficiency results in poor enzymatic conversion of starch to sugar, specifically, calcium ions make amylase more resistant to temperature and pH.  To an extent, more calcium, more sugar, higher yield.

Higher carbonate alkalinity means the water has higher buffering potential, so that pH doesn't crash.  This would directly impact yeast efficacy, especially in a situation where they would be in competition with bacteria.  Bacterial competition means lower yield, so better buffering potential means potentially higher yield (faster fermentations).

This all assumes the alternative is water deficient in calcium with poor buffering ability.

Reverse osmosis, even very poor RO (on purpose), is still going to yield something like a 90% reduction in these ions.

[indyspirits]

On 7/10/2018 at 3:24 PM, flyhigher87 said:

One of the judges at the ADI conference suggested that I filter my Vodka through limestone.

That sounds about what I'd expect you to hear from a judge at ADI.

 

 

[Still_Holler]

On 7/10/2018 at 3:24 PM, flyhigher87 said:

Hey guys,

 One of the judges at the ADI conference suggested that I filter my Vodka through limestone.  He said it would add body to my Vodka.  I have also been to distilleries where I saw they filter their Vodka through Activated Carbon and Then through limestone or vice versus.  So I went out and bought a little Calcium Carbonate.  Wikipedia tells me that is what Limestone is.  It came in a powder so I figured I would add a tiny bit to about 500ml of Vodka wait a little and filter it through a coffee filter.  Well now it tastes like Chalk mainly because it has chalk in it.  

Anyone filtering through limestone?  What type do you buy? and how do you do it?

 

Mucho Thanks

I'm no expert, but thought that comes to mind is use a granular form (gravel) rather than powdered so that you do not get the chalk dissolved into the product as much. Limestone is usually composed of much more than just pure calcium carbonate and is more resistant to dissolving than pure calcium carbonate.

[SlickFloss]

Since we're talking water I would just like to take this opportunity to encourage all of you to take yearly water tests for content, but to also seek out consultants who specialize in biofilm and biofilm activity to also run samples for y'all. Biofilm is not currently regulated in municipal systems and can really be a drag on fermentation efficiencies. Biofilms are microbial based and they are active. Biofilm will consume nutrients, and when it is starved of nutrients will act erratically and can emit real nasty volatiles. We have done tons of tests on ground water vs treated water vs city hard water and biofilm will actually consume non sugar yeast nutrients in fermentations and affect yield, which technically in some way will impact ester development as well too (less etoh, less cascading reactions for transesterification). Also Biofilm will often coexist with other often overlooked aspects of water chemistry, like fermentable material in the water, which can also affect fermentation performance and quality from a flavor standpoint. Biofilm is often a result of or actually is iron colonizing bacteria (there are many types of biofilm, not all ICB) so keeping an eye on iron content of city water can be a good indicator of when to look for biofilm activity.