MG Thermal Consulting

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MG Thermal Consulting last won the day on March 31

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About MG Thermal Consulting

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    Atlanta, GA
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    Refrigeration and process cooling industry.
    Civil War History.

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  1. Next year, I will have a chiller to make 190F water with a new refrigerant coming on board. Right now, I can offer a chiller with a tap to plumb to a heat exchanger/water heater. These are concepts to either replace or reduce the size of a boiler whether gas or electric.
  2. Good luck to you Larry/Joe!
  3. Basically, most all systems require a water reservoir and not just a chiller. When using a reservoir, you can upsize the reservoir slightly to take care of the small loads (unless you're talking many, many fermenters). Once you add fermenter requirements to a city water situation, you're talking higher flows for 75F water usage because of the low transfer capability of jackets. Once you commit to a chiller system, the reservoir takes care of load when not running still or mash loads. You can usually come out ahead once you figure how much you're paying for water plus sewer versus purchasing a chiller- usually payback less than 3 yrs to purchase chiller. That being said, in warmer climates, it's a must to keep fermenters under control, especially where it gets above 95F outdoors and city water gets above 80F. In future (next yr maybe) heat recovery chillers will offer 180F hot water. New refrigerants being tested at present will allow this higher temp to be achieved. Attached is a special we built for one of Paul's clients, stripping rum with capability to operate at 25F for cold filtering and 50F for strip runs.
  4. Heck, it could even be a propane tank from a forklift! I saw a building wall blown out from one. Ethanol fumes can be really dangerous if they can move to a small area and concentrate.
  5. Welcome, When to get to the cooling/heating systems, let me offer some proposals your way! Mike Gronski
  6. Hi Mike,



    Great timing, I'm looking at a project that utilizes a 75kW chiller and would love to see some heat recovery option on this. Is this something you can look at?




  7. Jedd, We are a ways off before we can price out units, but right now you can count on the unit being about twice the HP as a conventional chiller- so if you were using 20 HP now, a 40 HP will be needed as a heat recovery chiller making 140 to 150F water. The new refrigerant will change that, making much hotter water. The system will need the hot and cold banks and other auxiliaries perhaps. Does this help?
  8. Really, the availability of the new refrigerants make the difference plus the compressor manufacturers have to test the refrigerants and so on until it comes available to the manufacturers and consumers. Also, it takes time for the manufacturers to determine a line of products and sales engineers and consultants time to put an overview and strategy to market. Fortunately for me, the manufacturer is already on the design end for a large convention center retrofit to eliminate steam heat nut needs 180F hot water to do that, which won't be done until next year. For distilleries, the chiller is actually a heat recovery chiller targeting the exiting hot water- so you get cold water that has to be used or saved in a cold bank or else hot water is not made. I hope that this becomes the future for distilleries as well giving owners a comprehensive plan for energy saving.
  9. In the next year or so, 190F water will be available on heat recovery chillers on the larger StillChill chillers I offer. There are new refrigerants being offered specifically for this design, which for those needing hot water, this would be a new efficiency that can be designed and budgeted. I went to a meeting that a design was being planned for a commercial building planning for hot water heat using a chiller, and this was part of the discussion (I was there to talk to them about variable speed drive on compressors used on chillers). You almost double the size of the chiller, but the conversion back to "free" heat makes it worth the $$$. Mike Gronski, MG Thermal
  10. Welcome Jason! I'll be glad to help your need for cooling system budgeting, consulting or purchase. I'll be up your way in a couple weeks to pick up our new German shepherd puppy. Mike Gronski
  11. That's exactly right, ground temp is about 55F and you can run a chiller at 45F as well.
  12. Depends on the temp of the leaving condenser water and whether it;s connected to an open reservoir- in which case its treated and not usable directly and has to go through a htx suitable for potable water, so you lose a few degrees on the water temp. I have set up a larger chiller with a discharge refrigerant tap so that you connect it to a heat exchanger that way. The best way is to capture heat from the mash cooling. You can even put an in-line exchanger to the boiler feed line to heat up the city water to the boiler. Lots of things, but so little time.
  13. I have "wintercoolers" that make a cold glycol loop in the winter along with a small heat exchanger, you can make the water cold all winter, Works great for Northern climates where you can get 30F weather for the winter, eliminates using up juice in the winter for the chiller.
  14. Even when the cooling water is cold enough for still operation, it may be lacking for mash cooling. With 200 Gal mash run, with a 2-3 HP chiller and reservoir, you can reject heat from the mash, and reuse the hot water (you make up water in your reservoir) if you use non-ferrous pumps and other wetted surfaces.