bluestar

We went ahead and amended our permit when we doubled the number of 60 gallon fermentation tanks. It is easy to do in the electronic system, and since it defines in some ways our production capacity (what they really are tracking, in part), we thought it appropriate to do so. On the other hand, temporary small storage containers (< 50 gal) will be serialized and tracked locally, and probably don't need to be updated, unless their general location in the premises has significantly changed. Just how we are approaching it.

Agree that if you can share with another regional distillery, that is a nice way to go, if you don't mind not being able to distinguish your glass from theirs.

Assuming 30% margin for the distillery, profits are about 41% greater. But I understand your question: the distributor would normally charge their 30% margin in addition to delivery and/or warehousing costs. In some ways, this is more of an issue of who do you want to defer to: the retailer, that can sell with higher margin or lower price, or any other distributor you are working with, that would prefer not to be undercut in price when you do a direct sale.

Or consider RIMS with a good hefty pump to do your agitation (and/or heating/cooling). We find that works much better than trying to get an agitator retrofit into a still pot not designed for mashing. A good centrifugal or PD will do, or an impeller designed for high heat.

Nope, so we ended up having them printed digitally at a shop that cut them for us. Not ideal, because the peel off backs did not always align well, making them hard to remove.

Follow up: looks like a 1.5" ID tube 20' long will allow a single pass crash if you can get turbulent flow for both the mash and the coolant. Cost looks to be in the $2K to $3K range, depending on features. And it can be used for heat-exchanged RIMS for heating or cooling.

One thing to add: extending fermentation may also increase LAB activity in some cases, and once LAB starts, your yield will go down.

Our license is 20001, and we are manufacturing and selling. They just rolled over the numbers from 15xxx to 20xxx at the start of this year, I think, so you are just seeing the newer distillers.

I read BAM the way Cowdry does: this does not fit into any existing type. It is clear it should be in the Whisky class, it strictly fits the definition. So wouldn't it have been better for TTB to have said to classify it as "whiskey" with no type attribution rather than misclassify it as neutral spirits? And wouldn't the easiest change be to create a type, if the TTB were to make a change, by analogy to the class "brandy" and create the type "neutral whiskey"? Can't we get a few hundred like-minded distillers to sign a petition or mass e-mail to make this request? I would base the description on the description for "light whiskey", just specifically say that is is not aged in wood barrels. The problem remains, wouldn't this be still the same as requesting a category "white whiskey", just a different name? But they may go for it. Ah, but this raises another issue for another untyped "whiskey": whiskey aged in wood other than oak. Bwaaahahahaha! Sorry, couldn't help myself. But your final comment I think is correct: normally they would have said it is class "specialty" with descriptive type "spirits distilled from rye" or "spirits distilled from grain". They don't require you to indicate the class, if you have the proper descriptive type, I believe.

Jeff, you are so close to MSU, have you taken any of the courses they offer there on distilling, or the short course at Michigan Brewing they offer?

Welcome to the small but growing group of craft distilleries in Illinois! Did you get to visit the Indie Spirits Expo in Chicago this week? Next time you are near Chicago, drop in to visit our nano-distillery in Riverside, Illinois.

I would consider one, just because of the beauty of your work. In addition to starting our distillery in a 1912 arts & crafts industrial building, I spent 15 years restoring our little 1912 arts & crafts home to original finishes and trim. How cool is it to have an arts & crafts coppersmith to make an alembic!

Of course it depends on the proof of the wash, I was assuming 40 gallon bain marie instead of 14, and assuming water in both. But even going down from 90 gallons total to, say 75 gallons, and assuming you need to get to about 200F instead of 212F, the physics says it should take more than 80 minutes. On the other hand, if you are running concentrated low wines or GNS diluted to say 80 proof, then yes, you are down now to 170F and you could be running in that amount of time. It's all simple physics: energy in, energy out. And by far, more important is the agitation. You could have plenty of heating power, but if you aren't agitating well, you will simply cook the outside of your mash before bringing the whole pot up to temperature, and bake on a good insulating layer ;-)

For Lallemand yeasts, you can also contact Ethanol Technology 800 583-6484

You might want to calculate your heating times, since in the end that may be important for production. Some thermal fluids have the advantage that they are quicker to heat up than water, if you are starting from cold. Others are longer. I would make a rough estimate that starting from bath and pot cold, a 60amp 240v single phase would take about 4 hours to come to temperature for distillation, assuming 40g of water in bain marie? Our 90amp 240v three phase takes 1-2 hours, depending on agitation and contents of the pot.

OK, then still not quite sure what you are asking then. What do you mean by jacketed? Insulated? Steam jacket? Water jacket? Bain Marie versus direct heating?

Maybe this question should be reposted as a new thread or on another about mash tuns, since I presume you mean a kettle for mashing and not a pot for distilling?

Starting with 50, planning on upgrading, is reasonable, that is what we are doing. But it is true, as soon as you get any individual product that has reasonable demand, that 50 will be too small. We can see that. But our limitation is not the still, it is space, because we are an urban distillery. Shelling out another $40K for a 150 still is less of an issue than all the work and expense of making the room for it, once the demand requires it. I also agree with the others that learning small is smart. We bought our 50 always with the intention and design to be a test and development still in the long run.

If it has yeast in it, it has protein. Yeast is mostly protein. If your wash is just sugar, you had to add nitrogen in some form as a nutrient for the yeast. You did that because they synthesize proteins from the carbohydrates and the nitrogen.

Marc, I don't know your botanical bill, but we have noticed the effect is associated with the root botanicals more than the leaf, seed, or fruit.

Agreed, give location if you want a response.

Gin we have made does clearly need a rest, and it tends to change both in tank and in bottle. In particular, the bitter, hot, or more earthy notes all tend to mellow with resting. I don't think significant mixing before bottling will do much for the resting, unless in the process they are oxygenating.

If you are F1, it sounds like you are under International Building Code (IBC). This is commonly being employed by the states. The IBC refers to other fire codes regarding flammables (IFC, for example), and all of the fire codes usually have some specific exceptions for beverage alcohol, as has been noted here. Beverage ethanol is usually NOT treated the same as other industrial hazardous flammables. From the point of view of their sewer system, ethanol can be safely diluted into the sewage stream without presenting a significant environmental or health hazard, hence why the exception. You need to find someone to champion that with Vancouver. From a waste point of view, your ethanol is far less of a problem than your stillage.

While not great, what you got is not that bad, if you are keeping grain in. We typically start in the high 1.060s and end about 1.22 using whiskey-specific yeast, with or without the use of amylase. We use 82+% flaked corn and a mixture of barley and rye malts. We find it takes 72 hours minimum to ferment on grain, sometimes it takes another couple days. I would avoid champaign yeast, it might give you more complete fermentation, but it will give you a completely different flavor profile that I would not think appropriate for whiskey. You might just try letting it ferment a bit longer, if it hasn't given up the ghost. You shouldn't need nutrients. You might have to correct pH if it is getting very high at the start.

In no way making excuses for St. Pat's, but you should know that County depts. are often clueless, and are asking for stuff purely CYA. I don't even understand how an OSHA rating would be relevant (hurting your back lifting it?). UL vaguely, for some type of fire rating? Unclear. And the tanks are stainless, they themselves have no fire hazard properties. What it sounds like they are trying to determine is if they qualify as safe storage containers for flammable materials. That might be the ratings they are discussing. Generally, the answer is no. If you are being asked questions by the County about fire hazard, make sure they or you have a fire protection engineer with distillery knowledge or experience. The fire rating of the building relates to occupancy and therefore to NFPA requirements specific for beverage alcohol. The mitigation of the fire hazard for storage of beverage alcohol is usually other than container protection. But they have the final say, and they can require anything. I have heard of some that were required to store spirit ethanol in flammable safety cabinets.